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  #71  
Old 02-21-2013, 12:07 PM
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There was a girl in my high school who was terrified of cheese. If you even said "cheese" to her, she'd run around in a panic.

That said, cheese was still served in the lunch room.
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  #72  
Old 02-21-2013, 12:08 PM
release the hounds release the hounds is offline
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Originally Posted by Greenmagick View Post
I know multiple children who have serious dog phobias. Screaming, out of control panic. It is very sad and MANY outgrow it. Yes, sometimes they cant help being surprised by a dog being somewhere unaccepted. As a mother, I would have no problem accepting my child's freak out for the "greater good" (cant think of how to word that) of someone using a service dog...NOT ok with it because someone was being selfish and was lying about their dog.

And there are people extremely allergic to dogs...again, I would assume for service dogs they would be fine with accepting that....but they shouldnt have to for someone who doesnt NEED their dog with them.

Its a simple thing we should be taught as children...needs vs wants.

And yes, its a big huge gray area.....but for me faking a service dog clearly falls on the wrong side. I get really annoyed with people who speed up to cut in last minute in traffic too....its rude and selfish. Speeding, just going faster and not cutting people off etc I dont equate the same.

Recreational drugs...well, one can partake all they want...they can also get arrested and put in jail for it.
all very valid excuses here in America where we've perfected the art of getting "our way". I wonder how all these other countries all over the world survive with a much, much, much more friendly dog culture than we do here? Why are our kids so incapable of dealing with dogs? Why are our people so allergic? why are so intolerant of everything in the "land of the free"?
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  #73  
Old 02-21-2013, 12:09 PM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
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could tolerate most of the stuff you mention
Most is not good enough. Everyone seems to think that taking the dog in public is easy. It's not, and the proofing (public access training) is the hardest part of training a service dog. Tasks are easy. Public access is what takes the longest and require the most effort, and what eventually washes a service dog out.

Considering in the general population only roughly 1 in 100 dogs is suitable for service work, I do not think it would be a good idea to open places up to all dogs. I'd rather not have 99 sub-par dogs for the one dog that will behave appropriately (assuming that all 1% of dogs are trained to the same rigorous standards...presumably most will not be, so maybe only 1% of those 1% would actually behave appropriately).




I don't think I've ever seen such a gross display of selfishness and disrespect on Chaz as I've seen in this thread. Appalling.
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  #74  
Old 02-21-2013, 12:10 PM
stardogs stardogs is offline
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Originally Posted by Romy View Post
You're saying here some states have certification/ID options for handlers, and that implies USA (unless you meant Mexico?). Do you know what states they are? Because I haven't heard of any offering anything like that. None of them require it.
NC has a voluntary registration process for SDs that includes sign off by a trainer. The registered SDs get a collar tag that labels them as such.
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  #75  
Old 02-21-2013, 12:17 PM
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Well, children who grow up in very dog friendly cultures are acclimated to it better I am sure. I do wish we as a culture WERE more dog friendly.

However, we are not and we have rules and laws about where dogs can go. Its fine to challenge those laws, to fight those laws, to disagree with those laws...I do. What IMO is NOT ok is LYING about have a disability and lying about your dog to bring them places they do not NEED to be.

The allergies and phobias - those were pointed out because we dont always know whats going on with others. All of this "no judging, they might actually have a disability" well I am not seeing the same courtesy extended to those who might have a disability and not have a dog.

(Also, to be clear, I am not talking about people whose disabilities may not be noticeable..I am talking about the people who admit they are lying and faking)
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  #76  
Old 02-21-2013, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by release the hounds View Post
all very valid excuses here in America where we've perfected the art of getting "our way". I wonder how all these other countries all over the world survive with a much, much, much more friendly dog culture than we do here? Why are our kids so incapable of dealing with dogs? Why are our people so allergic? why are so intolerant of everything in the "land of the free"?
I've wondered this as well.

In most developing countries, stray dogs are everywhere and unavoidable. They'd walk right up to us in Costa Rica and Nicaragua. There were at least 10+ "resident" strays on the main beach strip in San Juan Del Sur, and most of them weren't shy.

Even in my visits to places like Ireland and Scotland, owners would walk their dogs off leash. In fact, I saw more well-behaved off leash dogs than leashed ones. Dogs off leash in public parks were VERY common. Their owners would be playing ball or frisbee with them, and they were ignored/left alone by other park-goers.
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  #77  
Old 02-21-2013, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ~Jessie~ View Post
We've ALL broken laws/rules. I just don't see how a well behaved dog is such a Terrible Thing in a public place where they're not allowed (breaking a rule), just as driving a few miles over the speed limit (breaking a law, not just a rule) isn't.
It's not breaking a law vs. breaking a rule. Posing as a person with a disability is a federal FELONY, and in most states it's a misdemeanor according to state law.

It's a felony to pretend to be a blind person. You aren't even allowed to possess a long white cane if you're not blind. It's flat out illegal. SDs are the same thing.

ETA: I have no problem with laws changing to allow dogs to go into more places. That would be super rad actually. I like that sort of culture. What I do have issue with is people thinking it's not a big deal to commit a crime impersonating someone with a disability because they don't want to or like following the same rules everybody else has to follow.

Even people with disabilities can't legally bring well behaved pets everywhere with them. They have to actually go through with the time and expense of task training and public access training.
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  #78  
Old 02-21-2013, 12:38 PM
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It's not breaking a law vs. breaking a rule. Posing as a person with a disability is a federal FELONY, and in most states it's a misdemeanor according to state law.

It's a felony to pretend to be a blind person. You aren't even allowed to possess a long white cane if you're not blind. It's flat out illegal. SDs are the same thing.
I never said anything about anyone pretending to need a service dog.

I said a well behaved dog in a public place where dogs aren't allowed. I said nothing about pretending that they're a service dog. No patches, no IDs, nothing. People can make their own assumptions about what the dog is doing in a store/place where dogs aren't allowed.

I do think that a well behaved "fake" service dog is better than a terribly behaved legit service dog. I also think an overcooked steak is better than a world class meatloaf. I'm not a fan of either of them, though.

ETA: I don't care if people speed on the roads as long as they're decent drivers, because let's face it, most of us (including myself) drive a little bit over the speed limit all of the time. However, if someone were to get pulled over for speeding and then whip out a fake badge pretending to be an undercover agent or detective, I'd agree that it's wrong.
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  #79  
Old 02-21-2013, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ~Jessie~ View Post
I never said anything about anyone pretending to need a service dog.

I said a well behaved dog in a public place where dogs aren't allowed. I said nothing about pretending that they're a service dog. No patches, no IDs, nothing. People can make their own assumptions about what the dog is doing in a store/place where dogs aren't allowed.
The thing is, people are forced to make assumptions because we can't legally ask someone if they have a disability. The default assumption most people make if it's not a visible disability is that the person is faking it, but they can't do anything about it. This in turn hurts teams where the handler does not have a visible disability because people assume the same thing about us.

Has anybody not noticed that the most vocal opponents to fakers in this thread are the SD handlers? Maybe, just maybe, that's because it does and has affected us?

If I need to fly somewhere on a plane I have to supply a doctors note now. That wasn't true in the past, it isn't applied to people with a physical disability. It only applies to PSDs and that's a direct result of FAKERS.

I have no health insurance. I have no primary care doctor. Which means that if I want to fly on an airplane I now have the additional expense of going to a doctor, explaining the situation, and hoping they don't want to do a bunch of exams or tests or crap before writing my note. Thanks fakers.
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  #80  
Old 02-21-2013, 12:46 PM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
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I said nothing about pretending that they're a service dog. No patches, no IDs, nothing. People can make their own assumptions about what the dog is doing in a store/place where dogs aren't allowed.
A service dog does not have to have patches or IDs. By being in a place where you KNOW dogs are not allowed, you ARE impersonating a service dog and a disabled handler.


Quote:
Has anybody not noticed that the most vocal opponents to fakers in this thread are the SD handlers? Maybe, just maybe, that's because it does and has affected us?

If I need to fly somewhere on a plane I have to supply a doctors note now. That wasn't true in the past, it isn't applied to people with a physical disability. It only applies to PSDs and that's a direct result of FAKERS.

I have no health insurance. I have no primary care doctor. Which means that if I want to fly on an airplane I now have the additional expense of going to a doctor, explaining the situation, and hoping they don't want to do a bunch of exams or tests or crap before writing my note. Thanks fakers.
This. THIS this this. SO much this!
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