Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Discussions and Dog Talk Forums > Dog Training Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 02-19-2013, 09:05 AM
Red Chrome's Avatar
Red Chrome Red Chrome is online now
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,568
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by release the hounds View Post

This all came up in relation to teaching a hold. If it's all about "to get the thing, you must give up the thing" then how do you use that to teach a hold? I say the dog knows the behavior, all you're doing is teaching new situations in which the behavior must still be done and rewarding for proper behavior.

anyway, I have to go work on a new formula. i've found a way to serve "liquid ice". I have to get this thing to market, it could literally be a life saver. In fact one could say it's necessary for one to survive. Watch for it, "liquid ice" will be coming to a store near you soon.
Yeah, I'm failing to understand how this would work for teaching a longer hold. I could see this effectively training the dog to spit the dumbbell out. Not hold it as they should.

But, I'm also not out to reinvent the wheel. I prefer Hunting Retriever methods because they work and work well.. People hear the word force in relation to retrieve and wig out. I have never seen a hunting retriever lose hold of something when they're trained with a good force fetch system.
__________________
Osyrius SilverChrome GTOVonMarionHaus-OFA H/E DM Free CGC DDJ RN BH
WBBs BleauChrome Lady of TheCopa-CGC STARR Naughty RockStar
The BlackChrome Executioner VonMarionHaus-Puppy Terrorist
The OldMan Hobie-CGC Rotten Old Dog 11/14/99-01/08/2013
Talulajhs RedChrome Kahpone-CGC TT BH TDI 10/31/04-06/07/10.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 02-19-2013, 09:14 AM
AdrianneIsabel's Avatar
AdrianneIsabel AdrianneIsabel is offline
Glutton for Crazy
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 8,893
Default

I have had a lot of people say they prefer the hunting force methods because it doesn't risk a high value for a dumbbell. Having a dog that naturally thinks the dumbbell is awesome and doesn't want to trade it for a tug... I can see their point.

fwiw, I see the difference in the reward pertaining to the discussion.
__________________
Sloan von Krigbaum IPO1 CGC BH CD NA NJ PD MJ-N RATI RATN 3/7/10 -
Shamoo NJ-N RATI RATN 3/1/98 -
Phelan du Loups du Soleil CGC RATI 6/15/13 -
Chili Brigades Brover 5/23/14 -

Arnold CGC TDI FD 6/29/04 - 07/05/13
Backup CGC HIC CD SRD SJ-N RATI 12/29/09 - 07/05/13

You were amazing, we did amazing things.


Harmony Canine, relationship based training.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 02-19-2013, 09:17 AM
Dizzy's Avatar
Dizzy Dizzy is offline
Sit! Good dog.
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Wales
Posts: 17,544
Default

I clicked as soon as he put his mouth on the object, and built it up from there. We've had to work a lot on retrieve. He's only just starting to "get" it now.

But yes, clicked for mouth on object, to in mouth, to holding in mouth.

Bodgi was easy... Put object it mouth, ask to stay. Voila lol. She's a good girl though, and would be useless for a retrieve and hold as she throws things at you to throw again!
__________________
"Dogs are our link to paradise. They do not know jealousy or discontent. To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden, where doing nothing wasn't boring, it was peace."


Bodhi is the opposite of ignorance, the insight into reality which destroys mental afflictions and brings peace.

Owned by Bodhi Booglaoo and Fredington Holbein


Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 02-19-2013, 12:11 PM
Red Chrome's Avatar
Red Chrome Red Chrome is online now
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,568
Default

Even with Force Fetch. Judge's dumbbell is high high value for him.
__________________
Osyrius SilverChrome GTOVonMarionHaus-OFA H/E DM Free CGC DDJ RN BH
WBBs BleauChrome Lady of TheCopa-CGC STARR Naughty RockStar
The BlackChrome Executioner VonMarionHaus-Puppy Terrorist
The OldMan Hobie-CGC Rotten Old Dog 11/14/99-01/08/2013
Talulajhs RedChrome Kahpone-CGC TT BH TDI 10/31/04-06/07/10.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 02-19-2013, 01:07 PM
AdrianneIsabel's Avatar
AdrianneIsabel AdrianneIsabel is offline
Glutton for Crazy
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 8,893
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Chrome View Post
Even with Force Fetch. Judge's dumbbell is high high value for him.
High value or problematic high value?
__________________
Sloan von Krigbaum IPO1 CGC BH CD NA NJ PD MJ-N RATI RATN 3/7/10 -
Shamoo NJ-N RATI RATN 3/1/98 -
Phelan du Loups du Soleil CGC RATI 6/15/13 -
Chili Brigades Brover 5/23/14 -

Arnold CGC TDI FD 6/29/04 - 07/05/13
Backup CGC HIC CD SRD SJ-N RATI 12/29/09 - 07/05/13

You were amazing, we did amazing things.


Harmony Canine, relationship based training.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 02-19-2013, 08:05 PM
Red Chrome's Avatar
Red Chrome Red Chrome is online now
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,568
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
High value or problematic high value?
It borders on problematic high value. Not quite there but millimeters away from being there. He gets "OMG, DUMBBELL!! CAN'T CONTROL MYSELF" for a few seconds before being reminded to settle, his settle isn't very settled but more on the verge of GO!. We work through it, but it sucks.

LoLa was started with Force Fetch and I need to work on it better. The retriever lady I train with, calls it a "stay for the mouth". You start with your finger in their mouth, then move on to an object and once they are solid on holding and taking the object, then you heel with the object. Then after that you start very short retrieves working up to the whole retrieve.
__________________
Osyrius SilverChrome GTOVonMarionHaus-OFA H/E DM Free CGC DDJ RN BH
WBBs BleauChrome Lady of TheCopa-CGC STARR Naughty RockStar
The BlackChrome Executioner VonMarionHaus-Puppy Terrorist
The OldMan Hobie-CGC Rotten Old Dog 11/14/99-01/08/2013
Talulajhs RedChrome Kahpone-CGC TT BH TDI 10/31/04-06/07/10.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 02-19-2013, 08:18 PM
AdrianneIsabel's Avatar
AdrianneIsabel AdrianneIsabel is offline
Glutton for Crazy
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 8,893
Default

Backups issue is a lock jawed, sharp shaking, shyed head, and circling possession. Food or tug trade? Nope, dumbbell! Getting a tight turn on the pick up and a give has been a challenge for him.

It was funny though the first time someone psyched me out about convincing dogs to get dumbbells and how much work it is so I asked if I could toss it once just to try and Backup flew over grabbed it and said hahhhhhhhhh mine! It's been a "no it's mine." Battle since then.

He's not in love with metal but I swear he'll grab anything with joy. It's a different world of learning from Arnold who never wants anything in his mouth.
__________________
Sloan von Krigbaum IPO1 CGC BH CD NA NJ PD MJ-N RATI RATN 3/7/10 -
Shamoo NJ-N RATI RATN 3/1/98 -
Phelan du Loups du Soleil CGC RATI 6/15/13 -
Chili Brigades Brover 5/23/14 -

Arnold CGC TDI FD 6/29/04 - 07/05/13
Backup CGC HIC CD SRD SJ-N RATI 12/29/09 - 07/05/13

You were amazing, we did amazing things.


Harmony Canine, relationship based training.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 02-19-2013, 09:43 PM
Red Chrome's Avatar
Red Chrome Red Chrome is online now
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,568
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
Backups issue is a lock jawed, sharp shaking, shyed head, and circling possession. Food or tug trade? Nope, dumbbell! Getting a tight turn on the pick up and a give has been a challenge for him.

It was funny though the first time someone psyched me out about convincing dogs to get dumbbells and how much work it is so I asked if I could toss it once just to try and Backup flew over grabbed it and said hahhhhhhhhh mine! It's been a "no it's mine." Battle since then.

He's not in love with metal but I swear he'll grab anything with joy. It's a different world of learning from Arnold who never wants anything in his mouth.

Judge had that issue when we first started. Honestly, a little compulsion and then later a tug reward fixed it. Judge can be pretty possessive still but a gentle reminder with the e-collar fixes it pretty quickly.

LoLa only likes picking up things she wants too. The Force Fetch has worked well for her, I went to that method with her after I tried the clicker method and got no where but a dog that LOVES to spit the dumbbell out everytime she sees a clicker.

Thankfully, I have actually gotten lucky and got dogs that have all had semi natural retrieves.
__________________
Osyrius SilverChrome GTOVonMarionHaus-OFA H/E DM Free CGC DDJ RN BH
WBBs BleauChrome Lady of TheCopa-CGC STARR Naughty RockStar
The BlackChrome Executioner VonMarionHaus-Puppy Terrorist
The OldMan Hobie-CGC Rotten Old Dog 11/14/99-01/08/2013
Talulajhs RedChrome Kahpone-CGC TT BH TDI 10/31/04-06/07/10.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 02-19-2013, 09:48 PM
stardogs stardogs is offline
Behavior Nerd
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: NC
Posts: 4,512
Default

Kes has been simple: did some for fun clicked retrieve stuff, introduced a dowel more formally, and then for the heck of it, threw a dumbbell. He ran out, picked it up cleanly on the run, and turned back nicely. He doesn't have the possession, but he just loves the game. All we really have had to work on is positions with the 'bell in his mouth.

I haven't introduced Aeri to the concept, but I suspect she'll be more like Backup since she is a more possessive dog. Thankfully she's been working on bringing items back to me vs taking off with them, so it may be easier than I expect.

I'm attending Clicker Expo in a few weeks and Kes and I have a working spot in the retrieve lab - I can't wait!
__________________
Erin, Ziva, Kestrel, Aerten, and Snipe
Always in our hearts: The Amazing Maggie Mae


Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 02-20-2013, 08:09 AM
Dizzy's Avatar
Dizzy Dizzy is offline
Sit! Good dog.
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Wales
Posts: 17,544
Default

What do people use as their retrieval cue word? I've never settled for one I like so tend to use go get it, and bring it here. Which is messy. I don't like 'fetch'.
__________________
"Dogs are our link to paradise. They do not know jealousy or discontent. To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden, where doing nothing wasn't boring, it was peace."


Bodhi is the opposite of ignorance, the insight into reality which destroys mental afflictions and brings peace.

Owned by Bodhi Booglaoo and Fredington Holbein


Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:29 AM.


1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site