Types of herding styles

[OutlineACDs]

Originally Posted by Emily

Keeva definitely likes to boss around large, moving animals, however, she also shows quite a bit of eye - on other dogs, the cat, and even her toys. It's very noticeable and dramatic; she slams down into a crouch and then creeps up with a hard stare.

Is this abnormal for a drover? Where does this fit in to different herding styles? (Where can I find a book or video that will answer these questions? LOL )

This is why it's important to get dogs on stock. Just observing normal dog behaviors (even sighthounds and toy breeds will give eye and stalk) does not mean the dog will do any of those things on stock. I have two pretty hard-eyed dogs when it comes to toys and playing/chasing, but neither of them are stalky or hard-eyed on stock. My bitch is by far more loose eyed than my male is. And Zen isn't what I'd call hard-eyed. He's just more intense. Neither of them crouch or stalk on sheep though.

[Emily]

Originally Posted by OutlineACDs

This is why it's important to get dogs on stock. Just observing normal dog behaviors (even sighthounds and toy breeds will give eye and stalk) does not mean the dog will do any of those things on stock.

Well no doubt, but I was curious as to the role of "eye" in various herding styles and in breeds outside of border collies, not necessarily my particular dog. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

ETA: I am aware that all dogs can display the stop, crouch, and stalk sequence of behaviors, but having spent a lot of time watching a lot of dogs playing, it is absolutely more prevalent and stronger in herding types than non-herding types.

[Taqroy]

I just checked youtube for more cardi herding videos and...most of the corgis are super fat. And it made me kinda sad.

Emily - is the level of bark in the video from WelshStump about the same as Keeva's? I sometimes wonder how Tipper measures up against "real" corgis. Lol.

[AdrianneIsabel]

Emily, for what it's worth all three dogs I have put on sheep (I know I'm an expert now) displayed very similar behaviors while playing off sheep.

Given we (my boss and I) took basics with Tucker, I did basics with Backup, and Sloan was only HIC'd (which she failed due to clamping down on the goats neck) so I have never been up into anything complicated. I wonder if some of their play and initial instinct on stock is similar but you'll see a lot more when you start shaping technical behaviors?

[Emily]

Originally Posted by Taqroy

I just checked youtube for more cardi herding videos and...most of the corgis are super fat. And it made me kinda sad.

Emily - is the level of bark in the video from WelshStump about the same as Keeva's? I sometimes wonder how Tipper measures up against "real" corgis. Lol.

Yes, LOL. Though, I haven't had her on stock!!! So I don't know. Her parents are both crazy like she is but serious when working.

But that's how she'll often bark when playing/bossing.

[AdrianneIsabel]

Corgis can stop barking?

[Taqroy]

Originally Posted by Emily

Yes, LOL. Though, I haven't had her on stock!!! So I don't know. Her parents are both crazy like she is serious when working.

But that's how she'll often bark when playing/bossing.

Int-ah-resting. That video is pretty much exactly how Tipper behaves when she's....well doing anything that requires brain power actually. Only with more running back to smash into me and bark (which is more due to a lack of self control than anything else). I don't think Tipper really knows the meaning of the word "work" though - I'm interested to see how she does in agility, if I can ever get her into a foundation class.

[Emily]

Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel

Emily, for what it's worth all three dogs I have put on sheep (I know I'm an expert now) displayed very similar behaviors while playing off sheep.

Given we (my boss and I) took basics with Tucker, I did basics with Backup, and Sloan was only HIC'd (which she failed due to clamping down on the goats neck) so I have never been up into anything complicated. I wonder if some of their play and initial instinct on stock is similar but you'll see a lot more when you start shaping technical behaviors?

Interesting! That's kind of more what I was wondering.

Also, re Sloan vs goat, I'm kind of worried about Blossom doing something similar LOL. I think she would calm down eventually and get into the groove but I also think predatory behavior and bites are pretty common in overexcited young dogs. I know when Aleron had Whimsy on stock the guy was pretty much like, "She's going to be amazing with training! But for now, I'll keep her on leash. Definitely on leash for now." I don't want her to nom anybody's stock and then have to pay for the vet. Keeva is really too small to do much damage though.

[Taqroy]

Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel

Given we (my boss and I) took basics with Tucker, I did basics with Backup, and Sloan was only HIC'd (which she failed due to clamping down on the goats neck) so I have never been up into anything complicated. I wonder if some of their play and initial instinct on stock is similar but you'll see a lot more when you start shaping technical behaviors?

Did Sloan permanently injure the goat? When we took the girls to be instinct tested the guy running it told us about a GSD who opened one of his sheep up all along the side. And one of the ACD mixes running that day pulled out a whole big chunk of wool - if that sheep weren't so fluffy he would of done some damage.

[AdrianneIsabel]

Lucky for everyone involved the goat was heavily coated. Sloan grabbed, hung, the goat ran smack into a fence wall and drug Sloan and the shepherd ran up to smack her with a water bottle on the end of a PVC pipe, guess what that feels and sounds like to a schutzhund dog? Needless to say she stuck with the goat until Denis grabbed her and she released immediately when he did.

Backup had gone first and did so well I think Sloan (a puppy at the time) caught everyone off guard, I even have a video of it until the ramming of the fence where I dropped my camera and ran into the arena. The shepherd and crew hosting the HICs said, "I hate to tell you this but unfortunately I can't pass her this time." We just started laughing, ummm no ****? lol They did follow telling us many of the best stock dogs start this way but need a heavier level of control. Denis has no interest in trying again, she has a crazy high prey drive and that additionally is why we pulled her from Flyball, you can only watch your dog hunt down and tackle border collies so many times before you decide maybe they're better suited for individual sports.

Disclaimer, humorously Sloan is actually very dog friendly.