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Old 02-15-2013, 02:42 PM
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AdrianneIsabel AdrianneIsabel is offline
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Default Types of herding styles

I was reading about Beaucerons and found this:
Quote:
Yes the Beauceron is a shepherd, but not a gatherer. Folks who purchase a Beauceron and expect the dog to gather sheep like a Border Collie will be very disappointed. The Beauceron is a Continental herder, and must be trained to perform herding chores. The Beauceron will not go out naturally and herd sheep around a pen. The Beauceron has an affinity for stock, but will not gather stock or balance a flock/herd instinctively.
I also remember Old English Sheep dogs are drovers, yes?

So... I am interested in what breeds herd, or did, in what styles and in addition to reading google I figured I would ask here as well.

Do herding trials only ask for gathering techniques?
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:50 PM
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The German Shepherd, Belgian Shepherd and Dutch Shepherd area also traditionally "tenders". But that doesn't mean they can't be "drovers" also.

In The Netherlands, they test the Belgian and Dutch Shepherds instinct as tenders. I was there to watch the testing process in 2011. I don't believe there are tests for that in the USA. But I can tell you I know plenty of Belgians who herd and have herding titles. A friend of mine keeps statistics on Belgians herding. http://www.belgiansdusoleil.com/herding_rankings.htm
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Old 02-15-2013, 03:26 PM
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I haven't gone too far into herding to answer your question, but I just wanted to comment that I was reading about beaucerons this morning as well, haha. I am amazed at the Journee du Beauceron...that is a fantastic program.
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Old 02-15-2013, 03:45 PM
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Honestly I'm so poorly at explaining it, so I will share with you this video of how a Beauceron herds. Essentially, they're a "living fence", which is what annoys me about AKC herding, even the pre-trial test is semi-set up more for what people think of as the "traditional" herding dog *cough-bordercollies*, as it asks for the dog at start to "gather" the flock to the handler even if it's only a short distance. The Beauceron was bred to run a fence line all day, keeping the sheep in, and predators out.

http://youtu.be/M8TO7lcJu4Y


On the flip side, the Pems are cattle drovers, herding the cattle in to market, in and out of pens, holding them, etc. I had a really good video of a Cardi droving cattle but it's going to take me a while to find it again.

Here's the Cardi!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFnc3...ACUQyvixUfvPiw

EDIT: give me a minute while I figure out how to embed the dang video!
Screw the embed, just click the link!
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Old 02-16-2013, 01:00 PM
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This applies to black mouths & houla which are used almost exclusively on rough stock like cattle and horses
Heelers- work the back side of the herd in an arc, and impart motion to the whole herd by presence and nipping as needed
Headers- use presence and position to push the front of the herd away from themselves and toward the direction the cowboy wants them to go
Windmill- ability of a dog, usually a header, to quickly completely circle the herd and keep it tightly packed for movement, only applies to big herds not when a dog does it to a half dozen or even two dozen
Catch- grabbing a hostile or flighty animal by the ear, cheek, nose, tail or testicles and essentially forcing it to stay in one spot
Throw- grabbing a hostile or flighty animal by the ear, nose or cheek AND using momentum and strength to cause the animal to flip off its feet by pulling its head under its body as its running

Most every cur dog isa healer or a header, windmilling, catching and throwing are signs of a superior or above average cur dog. A fair few cowboys keep bulldogs for catching and throwing because not enough cur dogs can do it well.
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Old 02-17-2013, 12:52 AM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
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Smooth collies also tend to be drovers. From what I've read, rough collies not so much. I find it fascinating that there's a difference in herding styles between the two.
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Old 02-17-2013, 07:44 AM
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Aussies are all purpose, there are bloodlines of Aussies that are primarily driving, and holding dogs, there are lines that will gather. The lines my dogs come from are strong in driving instinct and will sometimes do a close gather tho nothing like a borer collie. My Aussies and many dogs of their bloodline like to work very close to the stock and have to be trained to back off.
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:15 PM
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Cattle dogs tend to be all purpose. Originally they were meant to be drovers, following the herd for miles and miles to get them to the stock yard. Once at the stock yard though, they were expected to be able to push them into corrals and through gates and generally perform farm tasks with wild cattle.

A good cattle dog will go to head or heel.

Herding trials focus almost exclusively on gathering at the lower levels, as you advance, there is more driving involved. The border collie trails are geared to border collies. They have super long outruns with again, a super long gather, and then penning, etc.

Trials just don't test the herding breeds across the board for their original purpose. Corgis are expected to gather and move sheep, when they were developed to heel tough cattle. Each breed is different, but each herding trial is geared towards the same few skills. Most handlers will pick the venue that best suits their dog/breed. Any breed can compete in the big open sheep trials with the BC's but they rarely do because the scoring is based on what BC's are good at.
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:58 PM
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Argh that's it, you guys have convinced me to contact the nearest herding facility. I'm desperate to get Keeva on stock.

A question for those more experienced in herding: I know that corgis are drovers, as has been discussed, primarily of cattle. So they essentially bossed the cattle around and moved them up roads, to markets, and from pasture to pasture.

Keeva definitely likes to boss around large, moving animals, however, she also shows quite a bit of eye - on other dogs, the cat, and even her toys. It's very noticeable and dramatic; she slams down into a crouch and then creeps up with a hard stare.

Is this abnormal for a drover? Where does this fit in to different herding styles? (Where can I find a book or video that will answer these questions? LOL )
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Old 02-18-2013, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~WelshStump~ View Post
On the flip side, the Pems are cattle drovers, herding the cattle in to market, in and out of pens, holding them, etc. I had a really good video of a Cardi droving cattle but it's going to take me a while to find it again.

Here's the Cardi!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFnc3...ACUQyvixUfvPiw
Omg I have so much love for this dog.
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