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  #11  
Old 02-16-2013, 01:38 PM
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lizzybeth727 lizzybeth727 is offline
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Originally Posted by Babyblue5290 View Post
Like I said in my reply to Lizmo, some day's he is absolutely fine and other days he is just a demon! >_< I'm wondering if it's just a "teenage" rebellion stage for him, IDK. :/
I think you hit the nail on the head here!

5+ months old is, IMO, a little too old to be in puppy playtime with other puppies. If your trainer is ok with it, fine, but hopefully she'll stay on top of his behavior and not let him annoy the other puppies too much.

The reason I say 5+ months is too old is that this is the age most dogs start going into adolescence; they loose their "puppy license" that lets them get away with doing rude behaviors. And on top of that they become "know-it-alls" and are pushy and demanding in general.

So, a pushy adolescent who hasn't quite figured out what's rude and what's appropriate, is probably going to be overly pushy and rude when in a play group with a bunch of baby dogs.

This also explains why he does better in a dog park - because there are confident, adult dogs who can appropriately teach him the rules of dog behavior in a way that he can understand.

I think it was a good idea to move him into the big dog group at puppy class; IMO it would also be a really good idea to find him an adult playmate who is confident enough to tell him when he's being rude, and appropriate enough to tell him that without escalating his behavior.

Good luck!
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Old 02-17-2013, 01:57 AM
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So as an update, we've been to puppy class and dog park multiple times and he has shown absolutely no pushy/bad behavior at all. He even played with a group of small dogs without so much as jumping on them. He has gotten really good at running beside dogs as play or letting them chase him. He's actually turning out to be very good with doggy language. ^_^

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Originally Posted by lizzybeth727 View Post
I think you hit the nail on the head here!

5+ months old is, IMO, a little too old to be in puppy playtime with other puppies. If your trainer is ok with it, fine, but hopefully she'll stay on top of his behavior and not let him annoy the other puppies too much.

The reason I say 5+ months is too old is that this is the age most dogs start going into adolescence; they loose their "puppy license" that lets them get away with doing rude behaviors. And on top of that they become "know-it-alls" and are pushy and demanding in general.

So, a pushy adolescent who hasn't quite figured out what's rude and what's appropriate, is probably going to be overly pushy and rude when in a play group with a bunch of baby dogs.

This also explains why he does better in a dog park - because there are confident, adult dogs who can appropriately teach him the rules of dog behavior in a way that he can understand.

I think it was a good idea to move him into the big dog group at puppy class; IMO it would also be a really good idea to find him an adult playmate who is confident enough to tell him when he's being rude, and appropriate enough to tell him that without escalating his behavior.

Good luck!
I don't understand why being 5 months old is suddenly too old for socialization with other puppies around the same age. It's not like he's in a group of 8 week old puppies. This is a class for continued education and socialization for puppies, not for babies. I understand the opinion of not wanting to take teenage dogs and put them together considering hormonal changes, however the same thing is said about adult dogs being put together. so Meh, he has fun, get's some really good socialization, and other tha nthat one night all the dogs in this class have gotten on very well with each other. I think whoever it was that said it was most likely nerves was probably right. He hasn't "annoyed" another dog since the first night, and that was of course corrected immediately.

I wouldn't say he does better at the dog park. He did better at the dog park than that one class. Since then he has done good in either place, with big and little dogs A little dog even ran and he ran after, but as soon as it stopped, so did he! My little man is learning to be such a good boy lol

I think because of was a bit stressed and worried about his reaction initially I may have over-reacted. Of course I'll keep an eye on it and continue to work with him, but he seems to be doing great.
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Old 02-17-2013, 02:51 AM
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I've found different behaviours in different places on different days. Fred's problem is anxiety with new people and places in public. But that's not blanketed. Some days he loves most people, some days he'll skit away from them and give them a wide berth. Some days he loves some and not others.

Indoors, he can walk in a room (eg our ringcraft sessions) all nervous, some days he walks in and wants to play. Luckily he always settles after about 10 mins, he's not a total nervous wreck, that would kill me!


At the massive champ show we went to, busy as hell, he was a superstar, met 100s of dogs and people and took it in his stride. Was chilled and fab.


So I have nothing to add, but don't assume he's cured! If he did it, the potential is there to do it again, and don't rest on your laurels, try and work on it regardless. My experience is it can come out in different places for lots of different reasons, so always try and work on the manners you want, and attitude you want even if they're not showing the one you don't want.


Just be careful.
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  #14  
Old 02-17-2013, 05:00 AM
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To be honest it doesn't seem like the kind of class I would be keen to attend. I socialise my pups to have a neutral value for other dogs, that is I don't want them to have a high value for other dogs. I let them interact with dogs I know are safe and appropriate but I wouldn't allow free play in a group like you get in puppy school and I would never take them to a dog park. Personally I find it easier to train a dog that doesn't have a strong reward history and high value for other dogs. I think it avoids a lot of problems if you don't let them learn other dogs are highly valuable.
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Old 02-17-2013, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by smeagle View Post
To be honest it doesn't seem like the kind of class I would be keen to attend. I socialise my pups to have a neutral value for other dogs, that is I don't want them to have a high value for other dogs. I let them interact with dogs I know are safe and appropriate but I wouldn't allow free play in a group like you get in puppy school and I would never take them to a dog park. Personally I find it easier to train a dog that doesn't have a strong reward history and high value for other dogs. I think it avoids a lot of problems if you don't let them learn other dogs are highly valuable.
I get what you're saying here and know a lot of working line people that feel the same way. However, I personally like the challenge. We go to the dog park for about 15 hours a week currently, and my puppy might play with another dog for a total of an hour in that, which is always directly after greetings. I enjoy being able to take my dogs to an off leash area to play ball or frisbee safely and focus on ME. Neither of my dogs will blow me off to go play with another dog, period. At the dog park OR at the public park... Just because you let them play as a puppy, doesn't mean you can't have their full attention, too!
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  #16  
Old 02-17-2013, 03:35 PM
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Babyblue5290 Babyblue5290 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
I've found different behaviours in different places on different days. Fred's problem is anxiety with new people and places in public. But that's not blanketed. Some days he loves most people, some days he'll skit away from them and give them a wide berth. Some days he loves some and not others.

Indoors, he can walk in a room (eg our ringcraft sessions) all nervous, some days he walks in and wants to play. Luckily he always settles after about 10 mins, he's not a total nervous wreck, that would kill me!


At the massive champ show we went to, busy as hell, he was a superstar, met 100s of dogs and people and took it in his stride. Was chilled and fab.


So I have nothing to add, but don't assume he's cured! If he did it, the potential is there to do it again, and don't rest on your laurels, try and work on it regardless. My experience is it can come out in different places for lots of different reasons, so always try and work on the manners you want, and attitude you want even if they're not showing the one you don't want.


Just be careful.
No worries We will continue working with him on it of course!

I think we were a bit spoiled with Artimis, with all his fear/nervous issues he was nothing but consistant. LOL With Talon I'm getting a lot of what you have been getting with Fred! Not right now, now he is pretty consistant with people, but before he was some days great with everyone, other days scared of everyone, and some days choosey on who is was lovey with and who he was scared of! So far, Talon has given us a whole new set of challenges, but I think he's going to turn out to be just about exactly what I wanted ^_^

Oh, and I don't think I've seen any new pics of Fred recently, just a suggestion

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJEtzel View Post
I get what you're saying here and know a lot of working line people that feel the same way. However, I personally like the challenge. We go to the dog park for about 15 hours a week currently, and my puppy might play with another dog for a total of an hour in that, which is always directly after greetings. I enjoy being able to take my dogs to an off leash area to play ball or frisbee safely and focus on ME. Neither of my dogs will blow me off to go play with another dog, period. At the dog park OR at the public park... Just because you let them play as a puppy, doesn't mean you can't have their full attention, too!
That's pretty much my feeling as well.

I love my dogs being social with other dogs, but that doesn't mean they are allowed to just run up to any dog they see and ignore me. Even at the dog park we work on recalls and attention games. If either where super dog crazy focused on the other dog to the point I couldn't get their attention off of them, I probably wouldn't be in the dog park yet, I'd be working on more attention. But at this point Talon is able to completely focus on me with other dogs present and doesn't loose his stuff when he see's another dog.
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