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  #731  
Old 02-09-2013, 09:27 AM
SaraB SaraB is offline
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Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
Any suggestions? Patience? Booze?
This is the HARDEST thing in my 2x2 class, when a dog has amazing handler focus but little obstacle focus. I have found that putting a target for them to drive to will sometimes help them out of their stare funk as it gives a more precise behavior. Of course then you have to quickly wean away from it.

Otherwise, just patience and practice shaping other behaviors with objects so the dog figures out that they can't just wait on you to tell them what to do.
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  #732  
Old 02-09-2013, 10:08 AM
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a few times he got so frustrated he just started weaving figure rights around the two poles like SEE STUPID!? but now I know what I can work on for the week.

Sloan was back on 4 straight with round the clock work by the end and I was still lined up with a single set waiting to click when he glanced at the poles and feeling like I was betraying him after years of giving him no options but to stare at me for obed.

Any suggestions? Patience? Booze?
OMG I had the same thing with Kastle...we are now doing channel weaving with a target at the end for him to drive to. He is the world's worst shaping dog. Even when he is "getting" it, he is barking and doing other...unimpressive behaviors. I have the same problem - I've been doing obedience since the day I picked him up so his first offer is to stare HARD and then to start flipping into heel position or downing or other obedience exercises.

ETA: Ooops, I came on here to say that I'm taking Limit/Eden/Robin/Kastle to agility private lessons today. I am excited and nervous...I bought Kastle a new toy that hopefully is not "too" rewarding haha
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  #733  
Old 02-09-2013, 10:21 AM
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Aleron Aleron is offline
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OMG I had the same thing with Kastle...we are now doing channel weaving with a target at the end for him to drive to. He is the world's worst shaping dog. Even when he is "getting" it, he is barking and doing other...unimpressive behaviors. I have the same problem - I've been doing obedience since the day I picked him up so his first offer is to stare HARD and then to start flipping into heel position or downing or other obedience exercises.
I was going suggest that maybe 2x2 isn't quite right for Backup. I know in theory any of the ways of teaching weaves should be able to work. But I also know how hard it is to unstick a stuck Belgian when they're super sure that what they are doing is right.

What about these as an in between motivator? They're fuzzy like a toy...but edible!

http://images.quickblogcast.com/9/3/...b_Ear.jpg?a=99

or these

http://www.bestbullysticks.com/shop/...abbit-Feet.jpg
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  #734  
Old 02-09-2013, 11:14 AM
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Panzerotti Panzerotti is offline
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Otherwise, just patience and practice shaping other behaviors with objects so the dog figures out that they can't just wait on you to tell them what to do.
Yeah, I'm not sure what you've been doing, but what about going back to one jump. It might take a while, but just wait until his eyes flick toward it, release, have a party. Then build up to where he has to keep focused on the jump before he's released over it, etc.

Mind you, I have now created the opposite problem, lol! Pan has major jump love and focus forward, so threadles are our nemesis! She cannot wrap her mind around running *past* a jump. I am having to break it down into little baby steps, and have big parties when she has the tiniest bit of success.
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  #735  
Old 02-09-2013, 11:20 AM
SaraB SaraB is offline
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Yeah, I'm not sure what you've been doing, but what about going back to one jump. It might take a while, but just wait until his eyes flick toward it, release, have a party. Then build up to where he has to keep focused on the jump before he's released over it, etc.
Great suggestion!
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:56 AM
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Yeah, I'm not sure what you've been doing, but what about going back to one jump. It might take a while, but just wait until his eyes flick toward it, release, have a party. Then build up to where he has to keep focused on the jump before he's released over it, etc.
I agree with this. I had a similar issue with Webster when we first started...he would literally just run things over because he was watching me instead of the obstacle. Even if you don't do 2x2 and go with another weave training method, I'd go back and retrain looking at a jump, etc., because he needs to learn to balance his focus between obstacles and you in order to be successful in agility in general, not just in the weaves.

It's also important to be self-disciplined in your support of that sort of dog. Don't look at him directly unless you WANT him looking straight back at you, like for a convergence. Train yourself to watch him with your peripheral vision and keep *your* focus on obstacles as well so he knows it's okay to do the same. If you continue with 2x2s, be very very careful to also reward on the reward line, not from your hand and, to the extent possible, not after he checks in with you. With Webster I had to reward early because he checked in so fast so occasionally I would be rewarding an early exit or similar but I just kept the poles open and easy longer to reduce the chance of an error and allow me to focus on keeping his head down and forward.
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  #737  
Old 02-09-2013, 01:04 PM
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I can definitely go to the single jump, he knows how to weave and can do 6 straight so I don't know if another method is our answer? My slight problem is I have been looking at the poles and I have trouble catching the minimal glances, plus he's not supposed to wait for my eyes, in theory in obed I should look ahead and he should still stare at me so that makes differentiating hard but I will continue trying. I know it's even more reinforcing when I stare into his eyes.

I think we'll take a foundations class and start from scratch with him.
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  #738  
Old 02-11-2013, 10:39 AM
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Drilling entrances today and Sloan is hitting a very nice round the clock almost every time with a lowered jump before the weaves each time. She's even going out, around, over a jump and weaving with me on the opposite end of the poles. Fingers crossed this means we just needed to recover a missed step and we're on the way to fixing the issue.
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  #739  
Old 02-11-2013, 10:43 AM
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Is it just the weaves or does he have too much handler focus on other obstacles/sequences?

You can go back and teach a forward focus from the flat and then introduce the obstacles and then sequences. Also watch that any high hand/arm movement doesn't make him refocus on you when you don't want it.
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  #740  
Old 02-11-2013, 07:17 PM
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Crossbone has his last intro to agility class tomorrow!

I found a new training center, with people I know and compete with, that we'll be starting at the end of this month. It's a little further away, but I don't care anymore.

I have not web impressed with our classes these last 6 weeks :-/

The dogs are learning the obstacles, but everything is done in a straight line WITH GATES. Like a line of jumps & tunnels all encased in gates with a target at one end. It has taught Crossbone to LOVE tables and targets and do obstacles in a straight line. The instructor scolded me for having him sit & wait at the beginning (you're going to squelch his drive & desire!!!!!!!) and encourages the dog to do it fast without handler focus or instruction.
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