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Old 02-07-2013, 09:08 PM
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Default Dwarfism in border collies?

Ok this is a weird question, but I'll try anyways.

I see a lot of dogs that look identical to border collies except they are short in the leg. They are always referred to as 'corgi x bc'. Which is probably totally possible. But I was wondering if anyone knew if dwarfism happens in the breed. I know it can happen in other breeds. And these dogs look 100% border collie except for the legs. I was watching a video of one running agility and it behaved 100% border collie too.

Although on the other hand, some cardis look awfully BC-like so I could see a cardi x BC looking like a short legged BC too.
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:11 PM
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My friend used to have one, thought to be a corgi x BC, but just looked like a stumpy BC.
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:52 PM
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I personally have never ever heard of one. Stumpy-tailed, yes, but not dwarfism.
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:19 AM
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I'm definitely no expert, but I don't see any reason why it COULDN'T happen in Border Collies. I think it's possible in any breed.

I see dogs labeled as corgi mixes frequently, and think they are actually suffering from dwarfism.
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:45 AM
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Funny, someone on my facebook asked the same thing.

I don't think it's that common in the breed, at least haven't seen much said about it, but there are a lot of borders that are short on leg and long in the body, show lines mainly, but it's there. Add to that a really thick heavy coat and I could see where it would look like it.

It could be the mix if it's a cross, a shorter dog would produce shorter legs so who knows.

I know my girl's line has small dogs in it, she's much smaller than I'm used to seeing, like a bigger sheltie vs. a border, but bear in mind I've just had mostly boys other than one other girl who wasn't that small. Ticket looks like a moose beside her.

When it's a dog with unknown background anything is possible too....
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Kilter View Post
I don't think it's that common in the breed, at least haven't seen much said about it, but there are a lot of borders that are short on leg and long in the body, show lines mainly, but it's there.
True, but "short on leg and long in the body" is totally different from true chondrodysplastic dwarfism, which is what corgis, doxies, Bassets, etc all have. It's thought to be an autosomal recessive trait (I believe, it's hard to get a straight answer. But if it were dominant and normal proportions were recessive, I imagine corgis would occasionally throw normal-legged dogs, and they do not). You can select for shorter legs and long body in a non-dwarf, but it's not the same as true dwarfism. You can also take dwarves and then further select for exaggeratedly long bodies and shorter legs on top of the mutation - that's the case with modern corgis, they're bred to maintain extreme dwarfism. Historically, corgis were dwarves but lacked exaggeration.

I've seen dogs labeled as BC/corgi mixed that looked like dwarf BCs for sure. Looking at the color and coat genetics behind both breeds, it seems a little unlikely that everything would line up just so to produce a long coated, black and white dog. I'd buy that dwarfism exists in BCs, esp because of all the long coated dogs you see. It's true some corgis carry for fluff but it seems unlikely that these BCs just manage to find the corgis that all carry for fluff. The dogs labeled BC/corgi mixes that I've seen have all been coated.

So, um... yeah. In summary, I'd buy that BCs can produce dwarfism.
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by milos_mommy View Post
I see dogs labeled as corgi mixes frequently, and think they are actually suffering from dwarfism.
LOL well corgis are also "suffering" from dwarfism, and being a corgiX can entail "suffering" from dwarfism. I can only speak for my breed, but they're generally hardy and long-lived, and have existed as dwarves for hundreds (likely thousands) years. I don't know that chondrodysplastic dwarves of other breeds "suffer" any more than corgis, really.
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Old 02-08-2013, 05:37 PM
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Pretty much what Emily said.

Dwarfism is a possibility in a lot of breeds. I'd even guess it is a possibility in all breeds and more common in some. I have seen enough dogs who definitely looked more like dwarf BCs than any sort of mix to suspect it occurs in that breed. People don't always talk about stuff like that and in carefully bred lines, the chances of producing it might be lower but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

I have seen in person or in photos dwarf GSDs (they can produce both skeletal and hormonal dwarfism, hormonal is more common but skeletal happens too), Goldens, Labs, Cockers, Bichons, Malamutes, Elkhounds, Beagles and Pit Bulls... just to name a few. These dogs would have been labled Corgi, Doxie or Basset mixes if their backgrounds weren't known. I think it's maybe because people don't associate that body type with dwarfism and dwarfism as something that can happen in breeds not known for the trait.
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Old 02-08-2013, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emily View Post
I've seen dogs labeled as BC/corgi mixed that looked like dwarf BCs for sure. Looking at the color and coat genetics behind both breeds, it seems a little unlikely that everything would line up just so to produce a long coated, black and white dog. I'd buy that dwarfism exists in BCs, esp because of all the long coated dogs you see. It's true some corgis carry for fluff but it seems unlikely that these BCs just manage to find the corgis that all carry for fluff. The dogs labeled BC/corgi mixes that I've seen have all been coated.

So, um... yeah. In summary, I'd buy that BCs can produce dwarfism.
that's been what I've really been thinking. I know fluffies happen in corgis sometimes but LH is recessive, right? Wouldn't it be unlikely that that would line up just right? And it's not like this is one or two dogs, I've seen dozens of them that look just like purebred longhaired border collies until you look at their legs.

I've seen dwarf malamutes, labs, and german shepherds so I knew it happens in other breeds.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:52 AM
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I think you're probably right about a lot of the "mixes" just being dwarfs.

I've seen dwarf GSDs, and while they're freaking ADORABLE, I think it carries with it some more severe health issues than true dwarfism.
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