Herding or working dog?

[jenv101]

That said there is still a fair amount of variety in each litter and while that is true in every breed it can feel much more drastic in this breed, due to their propensity for intensity, edge, and energy.

I haven't read the whole thread but just wanted to add my two cents regarding this. My two are from the same parents and are on completely opposite ends of the spectrum in almost every way, so I totally agree that even within litters there can be huge differences.

Riley is a very difficult dog, inheriting almost all of the 'negatives' it seems. DR, doesn't like strangers, prey drive through the roof (especially for real animals), but very low confidence and very easily stressed. If you are a part of his family circle he loves you but it takes a very long time to earn his trust.

Aura is near perfect in comparison and could easily make a nice companion/pet if that is all she was offered. She loves everyone, human or animal, and I don't think she would ever bite in defense. She still has the high energy but is easily satisfied with balls/toys and any attention you want to shower on her.

[smeagle]

Originally Posted by release the hounds

There's just such a wide variety in all the breeds that you really need to get out, see the dogs, find some that you like and find out where they got them from. See them with your own eyes and interact with them in your own way for a bit if you can. That's how you'll find a dog you like.

Writing about and reading about is great, fills in the gaps until you can actually observe and feel in person. Thats' when the real and meaningful evaluations can take place.

Totally agree with you on the above

Originally Posted by Aleron

DA issues aside, I think it's probably easier to find a good (driven, intense, sound, stable, safe) working bred GSD than a good working bred Mal because IME there are just more working bred GSD people want the whole package.

That's interesting as over here I'd say the opposite, it's getting harder and harder to find a good working GSD, which is why police and other services are working with and breeding their own Malinois more and more.

Originally Posted by Panzerotti

Your opinion of what the breed should be does not change the reality of what the breed is, and what a potential puppy buyer might end up dealing with.

Just to clarify, I'm not at all saying that there aren't Mals out there like that, of course there are, sorry if it seemed like I was saying there wasn't. I think if you know what you are looking for and know the lines well, you can find a good Mal and you will know what you are getting.

I agree totally that even within a litter there can be variation, but if the lines and breeder are good, the amount of variation should be minor.

[Aleron]

Originally Posted by smeagle

That's interesting as over here I'd say the opposite, it's getting harder and harder to find a good working GSD, which is why police and other services are working with and breeding their own Malinois more and more.

While there are a lot of factors on why Mals have gained popularity over GSDs for police work, not being able to find GSds who are suitable for the work isn't generally one of them. Unless working bred GSDs are rare in Australia? Often Mals are a better value because they can be gotten cheaper, have longer working lifespans and don't have nearly the risk things like HD or bloat that GSDs do. I've seen departments around here switch to Mals from GSDs, who have both Mals and GSDs and ones who had Mals and now have GSDs again.

Originally Posted by smeagle

Just to clarify, I'm not at all saying that there aren't Mals out there like that, of course there are, sorry if it seemed like I was saying there wasn't. I think if you know what you are looking for and know the lines well, you can find a good Mal and you will know what you are getting.

I do agree with this. I also think that if traits like being reactive, guardy, suspicious of strangers, prey driven, etc are deal breakers for you then this probably isn't the right breed for you because many have those traits to some degree. It really just depends on what you personally enjoy in a dog and what you like to do with your dog.

I am sorry, that has interfered... At me a similar situation. I invite to discussion. Write here or in PM.

[Kootenay]

I was very interested reading through this thread, as I am considering a mal for my next dog (in about a year or so). It's great to hear what everyone has to say.

This is the breeder I'm looking at - http://www.malingerkennels.com/home.cfm

(is it ok to post that link? I notice people don't usually post breeder links here, is there a reason for that?)

They seem to focus on Mals that are nice and balanced, and after talking to many puppy owners it seems like they do really produce dogs that are good active companions as well as being totally able to participate in any sport (and conformation showing as well). I've been very encouraged by talking to the breeder and to other owners.

That being said, I'm still taking into account all the possible negatives that could come with the breed!

[Linds]

Originally Posted by Kootenay

I was very interested reading through this thread, as I am considering a mal for my next dog (in about a year or so). It's great to hear what everyone has to say.

I just wanted to squee over this again!! So excited for you!

Originally Posted by Kootenay

This is the breeder I'm looking at - http://www.malingerkennels.com/home.cfm

(is it ok to post that link? I notice people don't usually post breeder links here, is there a reason for that?)

Mostly just because most/all of these breeders aren't on the board so they can't defend themselves if things go south and since everyone looks for different things in breeders it's not unheard of for people to nit pick/not approve of breeders posted.

[milos_mommy]

People don't post breeder links because Chazzers are FREAKIN' nuts . There are no rules against it, people just don't want to hear others nitpick and bash their breeder choice. I've had people PM me (completely unwarranted, I've never been seeking a puppy or asked their opinion) lists of their problems with breeders who have been longtime members of Chaz when they have a litter. If I post something like "I know that puppy will grow up to be a great dog!" or "She looks like an agility star in the making" I get PMs that are like "Do you even know ANYTHING about her breeding program? The parents only have XYZ titles and that's not really very impressive and the stud's great-great-uncle only scored fair on his OFA". This has happened like 3 times.

SO, aside from my "chazzers are nuts" rant...my only concerns with that Mal breeder would be the amount of dogs they have/breed. It looks like maybe the list of their dogs aren't all dogs they currently own, though...maybe all the dogs they've bred? That's kind of a personal concern, too...I want to look for a breeder who absolutely has the time and energy to follow up on all their puppies and put 110% into every single litter, and many people can't do that with 3 litters a year, but I'm sure some can. I'd question if all the pups were born and raised in the home, but again, I don't think it makes them a bad breeder if they breed the pups in a kennel environment, just something that has pros and cons and I'd not personally want.

Also, Mals come in blue?!?

[AdrianneIsabel]

Malinois can come in blue, yes, but it's not an ideal and not something to be bred for.

People will buy what they'll buy but anyone propping a dog for color and not achievements hurts my heart.

Sucks to see the breed follow in pit bull steps but I worry it is inevitable.

[Oko]

I clicked on a random female dog in their section, and it is indeed co-owned, so they don't properly own all of the ones that they list, so I think that 1 concern isn't necessary.

[DJEtzel]

Originally Posted by staffanatic

Or a really mean and oversized BC. i'd totally take that.

Want mine?

My BC is 6 months old and has been rough and tumbling with my Pit (47lbs) and GSD (90lbs) since he was 7 weeks old. Perhaps finding a different line BC could soothe your worries about SSA/DA AND the hardness/confidence of the dog?

Originally Posted by FG167

ETA: but I have made it VERY clear that my dogs are to get along, and we have multiple intact males. Kastle is very, very biddable, and tries VERY hard to do what I ask - so this might also play a part. If he was less biddable, or cared more about dominance than about what I wanted, it may be different in our household. Limit is a bit of an ass with other dogs, but he now cares what I think too (he's 8 months now) and I can easily manage him - he knows to ignore others if he doesn't want to play. I'm a very....strong handler so this has been the case for me for awhile and I've had 5 male dogs of my own.

This is the case with Frag as well and I think Recon will be developing the same way.

My GSD started becoming "dominant" at around 2 years, he's 3 and a half now... and would posture other dogs, kind of start looking to pick a fight with random males of any size. (Ironically, right after he got neutered!) If he didn't have a care for a human, I'm sure this would have developed into same sex aggression... however, when I speak he listens, so any dominant behavior is instantly verbally corrected/moved away from. This is the great thing about biddable dogs!