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  #131  
Old 02-03-2013, 01:44 PM
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~WelshStump~ ~WelshStump~ is offline
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Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
Yeah, aesthetically I can't tell a difference between Nard (no dewclaws) and the other 4 (with dewclaws). I looked and looked and can't find a picture you can see them on.

ETA: Ok, here you go:


DSC_1456 by Summer_Papillon, on Flickr

You can see them when she's got wet feet and is being a ninja.
Yeah, just barely but, but it's there!

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Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
Yup! They're traditionally cropped and docked although it's pretty easy to find breeders that don't, or at least the ears. There seems to be a lot more choice available in that breed versus some others I've looked into.
Oh, no I knew they're a C/D breed, but, I honestly never knew they just took them off strait across like that ! Again, it's so hard to tell anyway with all that hair, lol.

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Originally Posted by Aleron View Post
Yep! That is the traditional crop for the breed but yeah, you can only really see it on the SFs and the demis. It requires almost no after care either, which is kind of nice as far as cropping go. People do get asked what happened to their dog's ears though :/

Here's another one:
Wow, that's a new one, the smoother coats do show it, but I seriously thought when they said the ears are cropped I was thinking, you know like maybe a Briard?

I get so many people that look at me funny when I try to explain that Beaucerons are related to Briards just without all the hair, then the arguments start "But they aren't cropped!" Uh, sorry but hate to break it to you those ears aren't natural all the coat just hides it well.

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Originally Posted by Linds View Post
I want a Pyr Shep and I want it to have not cropped ears but for them to be pricked up anyways. And then I shall be happy.
Well, I don't know about fully prick but someone I know had a puppy with semi-prick ears like a Border collie, really cute! Here's Mini
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  #132  
Old 02-03-2013, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ~WelshStump~ View Post
I get so many people that look at me funny when I try to explain that Beaucerons are related to Briards just without all the hair...
I didn't know that. Interesting.
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  #133  
Old 02-03-2013, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by sassafras View Post
I didn't know that. Interesting.
Yep! Except for coat (color and length) and parts of their temperaments (probably due to fads in breeding), they're pretty much the same dog underneath. So many people don't know that Briards also have two rear dewclaws, you just can't see them with all that hair lol!
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  #134  
Old 02-03-2013, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ~WelshStump~ View Post
Yep! Except for coat (color and length) and parts of their temperaments (probably due to fads in breeding), they're pretty much the same dog underneath. So many people don't know that Briards also have two rear dewclaws, you just can't see them with all that hair lol!
I think most people also don't realize that Briards are cropped. I know I didn't for a long while!
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  #135  
Old 02-03-2013, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Linds View Post
Personal choice and preference. I would hate to see it banned and I refuse to villainize people who crop and/or dock.

I do think sometimes people romanticize it more than it needs to and I would like to hear "I did it because I prefer how it looks" more often because I think deep down that's the truth for most people's decision to crop or dock. But I don't fault them for that at all.

There are some breed I like the look of cropped/docked and others I like not cropped/docked.
This exactly.

I doubt I'll ever own a breed whose standard is to crop, but I intend to always have a breed whose standard is to dock (even though my current representative of said breed has her tail). I am not into conformation, but most of the breeders that I'd buy from will dock their dogs' tails. I prefer the look, TBH, although my little tailed girl is quite precious as well.

Dewclaws, IMO, are vestigial appendages that don't really serve a purpose. I think they're more trouble than they're worth, and have seen countless cases where they've been ripped off or otherwise snagged with normal play.

That being said, I am also fine with declawing kittens during their speuter surgery, provided that adequate analgesia is utilized pre, peri and post operatively. I am less comfortable with an 8, 10, 18# cat being declawed, but there again, if it comes down to the claws or the cat (to paraphrase sassafrass), I'd choose the cat. Two of my personal cats are declawed and I've seen nothing negative in regards temperament or physical ability.
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  #136  
Old 02-03-2013, 04:16 PM
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I know this was a few pages back, but Jackson has his front dew claws. He's also undocked. The dew claws have never caused us any problems, more so than any other nail. To me, they're just like any other nail. To be honest though, I did not even know removing dew claws existed until joining online forums. Every dog we've had has had them, and I just assumed it was like any other nail, lol. But then again, I was so naive, that I didn't even realize people 'docked' tails - I had always just assumed Boxers, Rotties, etc, were born that way, LOL. /stupid

I'm personally really glad that Jackson is all natural. It's just a personal preference. And it was an issue when it came time to looking at breeders of other Silky Terriers, since docking is part of the breed standard, and it's hard to find a breeder in the US that doesn't dock, and I don't think I was willing to place my bets on getting a pup and putting a deposit at 2-3 days old before docking took place. It was one of my personal issues - because I really love Jackson's tail. So that was ONE of the reasons I started researching other breeds. Though, if a perfect dog for me came by, and it was docked, I don't know if I'd turn it down simply because of that reason. But overall I prefer natural breeds. Though I love a good crop and dock on a Doberman. I much prefer the look of a Dobe like that vs. natural.
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  #137  
Old 02-03-2013, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emily View Post
It's to keep the tips from freezing off in the mountains while they work sheep.

Honestly, a crop like, while not particularly aesthetic, is more sensical than modern show crops.
Yep! It was definitely not done for fashion and if people are still going to crop them, I'm glad they still do the traditional crop. What would the purpose be of cropping them in a fancy crop when they have never been cropped like that? This crop requires almost no after care at all, so once it's done it's just a matter of the ears healing. No weeks or months of posting, bandaging, etc that the dog has to go through to get the "prettier" cropped ears.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Linds View Post
I want a Pyr Shep and I want it to have not cropped ears but for them to be pricked up anyways. And then I shall be happy.

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  #138  
Old 02-03-2013, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by RottenFlower View Post
Dewclaws, IMO, are vestigial appendages that don't really serve a purpose. I think they're more trouble than they're worth, and have seen countless cases where they've been ripped off or otherwise snagged with normal play.
Rear dewclaws are vestigial. Front dews are very much functional, and used. Pirate broke one of his dews when he got himself run over by my bicycle (he jumped into the wheel, it really was his own fault), and I got a little obsessive about it at the vet, that he would not have to have the toe amputated. So far, the claw hasn't grown back normally, but I'm still hopeful that it will, it often takes a toenail awhile to recover after being lost. And at least he still has the toe, so he has some of the grippy ability.

My dogs use their dews to hold onto things, ie; bones they are chewing on while lying on their backs. They also use them to grip in tight turns, when the foot flattens out. Having seen how much they use them, I wouldn't dream of removing them.

That said, I don't find amputation of the dew claws to be particularly cruel, it's done at such a young age, I think the pups recover without any real trauma. Declawing a cat is a much more traumatic experience, and like others, I think declawed cats are way more likely to bite. (this is based on my exposure to them when I worked for a vet, none of my personal cats have been declawed)
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  #139  
Old 02-03-2013, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~WelshStump~ View Post


Looks like a common bobby to me , they don't usually take the answer "born that way"?
They will take it, but then I have to get into the, he isn't an Aussie or a BC issue
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Last edited by LostAndConfused; 02-03-2013 at 05:15 PM. Reason: bad a quoting
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  #140  
Old 02-03-2013, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Equinox View Post
False. The cats actually become so overcome with grief and distress that they commit suicide following their declawing.

True story.
Laughed at this the first time I read it...

Still laughing now.
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