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  #31  
Old 02-01-2013, 01:54 PM
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Sekah Sekah is offline
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Cohen is docked and has had her dewclaws removed. I wish neither had been done. She has bare scars where her dewclaws used to be that constantly get scratched and bloody because there's no fur there to protect it. Plus there's talk of tendon issues in dogs who've had dewclaws removed. Her lack of tail must in some way, shape or form effect her balance and maneuverability. I'm pretty convinced that she'd have her handstand trick down pat if she had a tail to act as ballast. Plus, I think she'd look better with a tail.

When she was a puppy I liked that she'd been cropped and had her dewclaws removed. I thought it was a sign that I got her from a good breeder who cared about the breed standard. Now, the breed standard matters much less to me than functionality.

However, I have zero problem with people docking, cropping, etc their dogs as long as they're well educated about the process and potential ramifications of it.
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  #32  
Old 02-01-2013, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toller_08 View Post
I think the decision to crop and dock should be left up to the owners/breeders/fanciers who want traditionally cropped and docked breeds.
I agree with this.

Neither one of my current breeds are cropped or docked. Can you imagine if they were?

If I were to ever get a doberman, I would want it to be cropped/docked. I would be VERY picky about the vet that did the cropping, though. I just think they look so much better when they're traditionally done.
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  #33  
Old 02-01-2013, 02:00 PM
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I don't care, as long as it's done responsibly.

My personal preference is probably toward natural, no cropping or docking, just because elective surgery on dogs seems silly to me, but again, I honestly don't care much. If you do it, I certainly won't judge you negatively, not in the slightest.
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  #34  
Old 02-01-2013, 02:24 PM
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I will never own another dog from a breeder that's been docked, cropped, or had (front) dewclaws removed (I rarely see tight rear dew claws, like Talla's). It is absolutely personal preference and I feel strongly against it.

That being said, both of my current dogs have docked tails and have had all dewclaws removed (Bailey had front and rear dews).

I wouldn't turn down a rescue dog for having any of the above cosmetic procedures performed before it came to me.
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  #35  
Old 02-01-2013, 02:26 PM
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Meg was docked when I adopted her; I'd never have had it done, but I admit to loving her little nubbin.

I wouldn't want to see docking or cropping banned, and try not to be judgmental towards those who choose to do either. I am really not a fan of ear cropping, but it's 99% a looks thing - I have yet to see a breed I prefer cropped.
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  #36  
Old 02-01-2013, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milos_mommy View Post

In places where it is banned except for working gundogs...how do you prove the dog will work? Does the dog have to be from working parents? Do you have to submit any kind of proof the dog works or will work? Or can you just walk in and say "I'm going to be hunting with this puppy, can you dock him for me?"?
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/1120/regulation/3/made#top


Rather than me type it all out


Certification requirements

3.—(1) A veterinary surgeon may certify that he has seen evidence that a dog is likely to be used for a specified type of work and is a dog of a specified type, where—
(a)he is satisfied that the dam of the dog is of one or more of the types specified in Schedule 1;
(b)he reasonably believes that the dog is not more than 5 days old; and
(c)the owner of the dog, or another person whom he reasonably believes to be representing the owner, has shown him the evidence specified in paragraph (2).
(2) The evidence is—
(a)the dam of the dog;
(b)a completed statement, signed and dated by the owner of the dog or by another person whom the veterinary surgeon to whom it is presented reasonably believes to be representing the owner, made in paragraph 3 of a certificate in the form prescribed in Schedule 2; and
(c)one of the following—
(i)where the dog is presented for certification on behalf of one of Her Majesty’s armed forces, armed forces identification;
(ii)where the dog is presented for certification on behalf of a body providing an emergency rescue service, emergency rescue identification;
(iii)where the dog is presented for certification on behalf of a police authority, police identification;
(iv)where the dog is presented for certification on behalf of Her Majesty’s Prison Service or of an organisation contracted to provide custodial services on behalf of the Secretary of State, prison service identification;
(v)where the dog is presented for certification on behalf of Her Majesty’s Revenue & Customs, HMRC identification;
(vi)evidence that the owner of the dog, or an agent or employee of the owner most likely to be using the dog, will be using the dog for work in connection with lawful pest control;
(vii)a current shotgun or firearm certificate issued to the owner of the dog, or to the agent or employee of the owner most likely to be using the dog for work in connection with the lawful shooting of animals;
(viii)a letter from a gamekeeper, a land-occupier (or his agent), a person with shooting rights, a shoot organiser, a club official, a person representing the National Working Terrier Federation, or a person engaged in lawful pest control, stating that the breeder of the dog whose tail is to be docked is known to him and that dogs bred by that breeder have been used (as the case may be) on his land, or in his shoot, or for pest control.
(3) Any certification given under paragraph (1) shall be made in paragraph 1 of a certificate in the form prescribed in Schedule 2.
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  #37  
Old 02-01-2013, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SizzleDog View Post
This. It seems to me that most people who have seen the results excellent, talented, experienced cropping vets.... don't mind cropping as much as people who haven't. There really is a huge difference between a cropper who is known in the show circles, versus a local vet who happens to offer cropping. The level of comfort and care is vastly different.
Well, I'm going to be the exception then.

I worked for a vet that cropped. The breed he did the most of was Boxers, because we had a couple of Boxer breeders that came to do the wrapping (they knew more about the aftercare than the vet did), though he did do other breeds as well. He probably cropped most of the show Boxers in the area, as well as many of the pets. So I've seen a lot of cropping. And I don't like it. Don't like the smell, don't like the sore-eared puppies having their ears messed with, don't like the ear infections they seem to get while their ears are wrapped. I also don't like the look (because face it... it's weird. It doesn't look like natural prick ears, it looks like your dog had half it's ear cut off)

I'm not in favor of illegalizing it, because in general, I'm not a big fan of laws restricting personal choice. I don't demonize my friends who have cropped ears, and get their pups cropped. I don't say anything about it at all, because it's not my choice to make. But it's a thing I don't like, would like to see go away on it's own, and it influences what breeds I want, because I don't want a cropped dog. The biggest reason I ended up with Staffords instead of Amstaffs was natural ears. (though I could have got an Amstaff and not cropped, when I went to a show to see which I wanted, all the Amstaffs had cropped ears and it affected my opinion of the breed.)

I don't mind tail docking and dew claw removal as much, because they are done so young, the pups get over it fast. They do affect function more, though. And again, I tend not to like the exposed scar. (the vet I worked for would take out an extra vertebrae when docking tails and fold the skin over, so it left no visible scar on the tail stump. I found it less ugly.) I could live with a docked breed. I do tend to prefer dogs that have their bits, though.
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  #38  
Old 02-01-2013, 02:54 PM
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What would be your guess?

What? by ~WelshStump~, on Flickr

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linds View Post
Personal choice and preference. I would hate to see it banned and I refuse to villainize people who crop and/or dock.
But this! ^^^
Sorry, I've seen dogs who were way worse after an average spay than most average crops.

Docking, I go traditional only, I do quite despise people who do it later for cosmetic reasons! Do it early or don't do it at all, period.

On cropping and ear problems though, my worst ear infection dog has naturally prick ears, Enda still gets dirty ears on occasions that need to be cleaned well with her cropped set, and the dog who has so far had the least problems, is the one with the floppy set! Go figure.

For Dew claws, I've recently become more and more anti front removal, after what's happened to the only dog I've owned who had his removed, they're swollen from arthritis and he's starting to not stand right on the one foot because of it, not to forget the limping. I've had more problems with him alone, than the 4 I've had with intact dews, including the one now with sickly overgrown nails (still working on that beast).

I'm overall, very pro-choice, there are worse things in this world to be worried about, why bother. As for the other things mentioned though, I'm very anti declawing of cats, because they are the worst biters! I'm half/half on de-barking, as it is No, I don't agree with it at all, BUT, I think that the option SHOULD stay, why? Because when you hit the courtroom and wind up with the 3 choices of "Move (what if you can't?), sign over to AC (where they might be killed), or de-bark", yeah, I think that one instance should stay open, owning a Corgi I know I'd probably get picked up if I lived next to one of those neighbors, and if I absolutely didn't have the option of moving I would rather my dog be voiceless and loving life than dead.
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  #39  
Old 02-01-2013, 03:09 PM
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I often thought cropping my wheaten would have been cool.

I find dewclaw removal to be the worst, I like my thumbs and I figure it would be wrong to steal my dogs.

That said I support debarking when it is an issue of housing. I have worked with countless (my first job had forty debarked eskies) dogs who were debarked, none were worse for wear but many often regrew their bark and it was always pained and raspy, sometimes more annoying than the first bark.
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  #40  
Old 02-01-2013, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~WelshStump~ View Post
I'm overall, very pro-choice, there are worse things in this world to be worried about, why bother. As for the other things mentioned though, I'm very anti declawing of cats, because they are the worst biters! I'm half/half on de-barking, as it is No, I don't agree with it at all, BUT, I think that the option SHOULD stay, why? Because when you hit the courtroom and wind up with the 3 choices of "Move (what if you can't?), sign over to AC (where they might be killed), or de-bark", yeah, I think that one instance should stay open, owning a Corgi I know I'd probably get picked up if I lived next to one of those neighbors, and if I absolutely didn't have the option of moving I would rather my dog be voiceless and loving life than dead.
110% agree. Declawing cats is a big no, and I have no problem expressing that opinion to anyone.

Debarking I totally agree...I believe it should remain as a last resort option.
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