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  #91  
Old 01-26-2013, 08:59 PM
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Saying that birds are dinosaurs is not the same as saying that all dinosaur are birds. Current thinking is that 'dinosaur' encompasses two main radiations of animals, and one of those had an off-shoot which led to birds; so the bird clade is nested inside the dinosaur clade. Hence, birds are dinosaurs, in the same way that birds are reptiles, if we're trying to use the terms in a cladistic fashion.

Evolution includes adaption of the type you're talking about, Romy. :] Evolution is more than just speciation; it's the process, driven by selective pressures, by which populations change in gene frequency over time.
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  #92  
Old 01-26-2013, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Red.Apricot View Post
Saying that birds are dinosaurs is not the same as saying that all dinosaur are birds. Current thinking is that 'dinosaur' encompasses two main radiations of animals, and one of those had an off-shoot which led to birds; so the bird clade is nested inside the dinosaur clade. Hence, birds are dinosaurs, in the same way that birds are reptiles, if we're trying to use the terms in a cladistic fashion.

Evolution includes adaption of the type you're talking about, Romy. :] Evolution is more than just speciation; it's the process, driven by selective pressures, by which populations change in gene frequency over time.
Birds never have fur and always lay eggs. Some dinosaurs have fur, so right there that puts them in a different category than birds. They can still be ancestral, but they're not the same thing. Also, based on the extreme size of some dinosaur species it's extremely likely some were live bearers.

Using the term in a cladistic fashion is all well and good, but it's not very relevant to dogs vs. wolves in this context. Thrushes have very different needs than ducks, than peregrine falcons, than velociraptors, and then if you want to branch over to reptiles, than iguanas.

I think it's very likely that birds are descended from dinosaurs, but until someone comes up with DNA (which I think will happen at some point) I'm going to reserve a little skepticism. Tuataras are total weirdos out of left field, but superficially they closely resemble agamids and some other lizards.
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  #93  
Old 01-26-2013, 09:33 PM
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So which dinosaurs have fur?

Real fur, not furry looking feathers.
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  #94  
Old 01-26-2013, 09:56 PM
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So which dinosaurs have fur?

Real fur, not furry looking feathers.
Sordes pilosus for one, though there are a lot of pterosaurs described as having "hairlike" and "furlike" coverings, with stress placed on it not being feathers. There are dinosaurs with hairlike feathers, but when I look them up sometimes they describe it as being "feather-like", so not true feathers there in every case either.
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  #95  
Old 01-26-2013, 10:01 PM
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All I have to say is that sometimes the way threads twist and turn on chaz amazes me. One of the many reasons I love this place.
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  #96  
Old 01-26-2013, 10:30 PM
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All I have to say is that sometimes the way threads twist and turn on chaz amazes me. One of the many reasons I love this place.
Right? I WAS reading about starch adaptations, then raw feed/grain feeding, then theories vs laws, including something about the laws of thermodynamics, then evolution got dragged into, then dogs and how they are/not wolves, then how a bird is a dinosaur but not.

Weird.
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  #97  
Old 01-26-2013, 10:35 PM
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Jumping back to the OP...Very interesting. Though I wouldn't rush out to add starches to your dog's diet on the basis of this. Just because a dog CAN digest this doesn't mean its the best option metabolically. We digest simple carbs, ie sugar, just fine... doesn't mean we should start adding it to our diets for heath's sake.

It should be fairly obvious that dogs CAN digest starches, or we would have a lot of dogs with upset stomachs eating the typical kibble. But can and is a healthy option are not the same things.
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  #98  
Old 01-26-2013, 10:38 PM
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We're doomed anyway.


ETA: DEKKA YOU'RE HERE!!! I've literally been waiting for your input on the OP for the entire thread!
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  #99  
Old 01-27-2013, 12:46 AM
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Mitochondrial DNA is the key here. Again, dogs and wolves share a common ancestor. They are NOT the same thing, and dogs did NOT evolve from wolves. Mitochondrial Wolfdog evolved into Dog and Wolf separately.

(Mark Derr seems to hate mtDNA because it makes what he has argued for so long just... wrong. He likes to give interviews and mention the "flaws" of mtDNA, but never really expands on why he thinks the flaws from the initial beliefs on mtDNA changes anything as far as tracing back to a common ancestor goes. I guess because people initially thought mtDNA was passed on only through the mother and that has turned out to be false that just makes it all entirely bunk? Meh.)
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  #100  
Old 01-27-2013, 12:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
Jumping back to the OP...Very interesting. Though I wouldn't rush out to add starches to your dog's diet on the basis of this. Just because a dog CAN digest this doesn't mean its the best option metabolically. We digest simple carbs, ie sugar, just fine... doesn't mean we should start adding it to our diets for heath's sake.

It should be fairly obvious that dogs CAN digest starches, or we would have a lot of dogs with upset stomachs eating the typical kibble. But can and is a healthy option are not the same things.


That sums up my thoughts pretty well.
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