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  #61  
Old 01-22-2013, 04:21 PM
JessLough JessLough is online now
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Originally Posted by CharlieDog View Post
I'm certainly not questioning his need for a Service Dog. Not at all, and as we ALL know, many disabilities are invisible. The problem for other people with Service Dogs, even those from programs is that the next time a team comes into somewhere an SD team has acted inappropriately they're automatically tarred with the same brush. I don't feel that's cool, or good or right. Everyone should be treated on their own merits, but it doesn't happen like that.

So, just because he's famous, he gets to feed his dog from the table and have his dog do whatever, wherever? I don't think that's acceptable or cool. I'm not saying he's a faker at all, but I AM saying he's an extremely poor steward for his SD. The plane thing, whatever. It's up to the airline and the airline employees on that flight.

The eating from the table thing is a huge no no though. THAT is what reflects poorly on SD owner/handlers in the public eye. And THAT is why other SD owners, even those with dogs from a legitimate program, react so poorly to people doing things like that with their dog.

There is no standard (unless you count the PAT, but that's not required for a team) and unless we want there to BE a standard then we need to hold ourselves above the average pet owner, and what they allow their dogs to get away with in public. Which includes eating off of tables and air scenting things.
Not from you, but from the beginning of the thread, I've gotten the "I don't deem your disability worthy of a SD, so you are not allowed to have a SD" vibe.
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  #62  
Old 01-22-2013, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
Actually tons of SD owners do the same taboos that he is being chastised for. These are legitimate SD owners and normal people. I would not garner that he is getting special treatment for his actions nor would I presume no one has never said, hey bro, not cool. It is socially more acceptable for the rich and famous to be rude, ruler breakers, and taboo, but to I do not know for a fact this is the case and therefore am not comfortable calling him an over all bad SD owner nor a faker.

My clients SD in Vegas was well trained, medically prescribed, and the owner still tried her damnedest to argue Coco should be able to sit on the booth and eat with her at meals. She was crazy but that dog helped, it took a lot of talking to get her on my page but that doesn't make her a bad. Person nor undeserving of an SD that helped a lot.
I think that's the nail on the head right there. I personally, would not mind if there was some sort of required PAT for SD handlers, as well as classes on how to keep the Joe Q Public quite about having a dog in a place of business. I feel like so many people misbehave unknowingly in public because they haven't been told that it's not cool to act like that.

Even people without SDs that applies to, btw, lol

My rub is that people doing things like that make is harder on people who act the appropriate way. And who knows, maybe his actions have never harmed another team who WAS acting appropriately because he IS a celebrity and IS therefore treated and expected to act differently. I don't know. It just doesn't sit right with me.

I'm not one to scream FAKER at someone who's acting inappropriately in public, nor am I going to berate them behind closed doors because that's not me. Everyone has an off day, everyones SD does something they're not supposed to do at some point. They're dogs, and that's the fallacy of using a dog to help you function.

Nowhere did I say he was undeserving of the SD, or that people who have legitimate SDs are undeserving if they don't act the correct way. Just that it reflects badly on SD owners as a whole, and the reason that in the future your only option may BE to pay 15,000 dollars for a dog from a program, and then I'd be screwed, because while I have the skill to train a dog to SD status, I do not have the means to buy a dog for that much money.
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  #63  
Old 01-22-2013, 04:43 PM
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I'll be honest, I am not convinced the "you make my dog look bad so you shouldn't have one" mentality holds water.

I should add that life would be easier for everyone if everyone like you in any way was as moral, ethical, and impervious to mistakes. That said that will never happen. There are so many better ways to go about things than the habits I have seen shared here an in many other SD threads.

I really would like to see more education and understanding that SD handlers are people, people are strange and diverse, people make mistakes, dogs make mistakes, harping on singular mistakes or taboos won't get us anywhere.

Take it for what it's worth but I think the beauty of SDs is their diversity of handlers and yet their unity in assistance. Sure some suck, sure some aren't exactly like you want, but in the end they're doing their best for the most part. You can do your best by gently educating and making a good impression yourself.
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Last edited by AdrianneIsabel; 01-22-2013 at 04:56 PM.
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  #64  
Old 01-22-2013, 09:33 PM
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Not even that they shouldn't have one. Just that they shouldn't be allowed to be considered as the standard, or in any way typical. We say the same thing about Millan and the way he portrays pit bull dogs as if they are meant to be shut down, introverted walking ottomans and how it does the breed no favours. I don't think he shouldn't be allowed to have dogs, even though he does far worse, but I hate that because these men get their own shows, on networks that used to be considered highly educational, they get to be considered the norm and what everyone should aspire to be. Like it or not, that's what being famous allows you to become. And it's not right. Or fair. Or in some cases safe.
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  #65  
Old 01-22-2013, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by CharlieDog View Post
So, just because he's famous, he gets to feed his dog from the table and have his dog do whatever, wherever? I don't think that's acceptable or cool. I'm not saying he's a faker at all, but I AM saying he's an extremely poor steward for his SD. The plane thing, whatever. It's up to the airline and the airline employees on that flight.

The eating from the table thing is a huge no no though. THAT is what reflects poorly on SD owner/handlers in the public eye. And THAT is why other SD owners, even those with dogs from a legitimate program, react so poorly to people doing things like that with their dog.
This.

Yes, we all make mistakes, but he consistently has bad etiquette. You can see that on the show, on his FB and on his instagram. And YES that does threaten our rights.


I only mentioned the plane and train because, in combination with the other things, it looks bad. Obviously if you have special permission from the airline/train service, it's no big deal, but, generally, SDs do not sit in the seat of a plane, train or bus, but on the floor.
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  #66  
Old 01-22-2013, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by CharlieDog View Post
Nowhere did I say he was undeserving of the SD, or that people who have legitimate SDs are undeserving if they don't act the correct way. Just that it reflects badly on SD owners as a whole, and the reason that in the future your only option may BE to pay 15,000 dollars for a dog from a program, and then I'd be screwed, because while I have the skill to train a dog to SD status, I do not have the means to buy a dog for that much money.
This, too.
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  #67  
Old 01-23-2013, 02:43 AM
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Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
I'll be honest, I am not convinced the "you make my dog look bad so you shouldn't have one" mentality holds water.

I should add that life would be easier for everyone if everyone like you in any way was as moral, ethical, and impervious to mistakes. That said that will never happen. There are so many better ways to go about things than the habits I have seen shared here an in many other SD threads.

I really would like to see more education and understanding that SD handlers are people, people are strange and diverse, people make mistakes, dogs make mistakes, harping on singular mistakes or taboos won't get us anywhere.

Take it for what it's worth but I think the beauty of SDs is their diversity of handlers and yet their unity in assistance. Sure some suck, sure some aren't exactly like you want, but in the end they're doing their best for the most part. You can do your best by gently educating and making a good impression yourself.

I'm confused, are you directing this at me or...? Because that's basically what I said.
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  #68  
Old 01-23-2013, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by ruffiangirl View Post
Should have clarified that our la Senza is in a mall, with an open food court.

I do agree that dogs should be allowed more places, but some places are not appropriate for pets, the vast majority of pet owners don't train their dogs, at all. I could bring Gage most anywhere and for the most part no one would know, except he is 170lbs and most people are afraid of him, and I do, we go to hardware stores, and pet stores and other places that are pet friendly. But I have seen, and death with, the messes that dogs make in stores, big or small, I don't want to step in pee because little fluffy had to go while her owner was looking for a dress.
Well, watch where you are walking lol.

I still don't understand the whole dog & food thing, dogs aren't dirty animals! When my medium/large dogs were small I took them into all kinds of places, window shopping with your pooch is fun!
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  #69  
Old 01-23-2013, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by CharlieDog View Post
I'm confused, are you directing this at me or...? Because that's basically what I said.
Not exactly as you have clarified you're not in that same boat as my initial post. I'm responding to anyone quick to judge others, demean, and call them liars or fakers. It's exhausting and frankly I find it in bad taste, you (general you) don't want the public thinking your SD eats from the table and I don't want the general population thinking I'm an unreachable, unsympathetic, staunch elitist.

I only directed my first paragraph to you because I'm honestly not convinced the average joe is ruining SDs. I have had an SD in my life since I was 13. I have also worked with SDs and their handlers over the past two years and the variety of owner trained dogs is astonishing. They are no less deserving and yet, yes, many are less educated. The fact is I genuinely believe there aren't as many fackers harming the issue as there are those who think they know but are unaware. Honestly look at the SD handlers who've somehow granted themselves the me mentality that their dogs can go anywhere. No, that is not true, these are still dogs and not able to be sterilized with gear, can be dangerous in environments, and not only is it legal to ban them in some places it is reasonable.

Maybe a certification is ideal, maybe clarity in the laws and better education is, either way I truly do not blame the competition dog handler who slaps a vest on their dog to fly in the cabin. Ninety-nine percent of the time that legitimate faker is more nervous about staying under the radar that they do more things right than the average legitimate use SD handler.
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  #70  
Old 01-23-2013, 10:14 AM
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Appropriate to pick up your SD? Nope.


Is she a bad handler? Naw, mostly she's a girl with epilepsy who adopted a pit bull for support and found the dog started naturally alerting. She then was threatened with losing her job unless she got a correct breed for SD work at the casinos where she worked. The dog was task trained to alert, bring meds, and could dial a special phone. The dog needed help allowing EMTs near the owner when passed out, we had a team of volunteers who brought their vehicle and gear once a week for a few weeks working with her. She got there.

This guy was off the wall. He has severe PTSD and refused (legally) to put a vest on this dog. She's wearing a service leash but no vest, he would claim, and then stress would engulf him and rage would enter. We worked with him on please use a vest, it will make your life easier, and here are better ways to handle the confrontation. The dog was task trained for many things dealing with touching, rerouting, blocking, and so forth, honestly he was just helping the guy hang on. I still love this photo.


These personal stories of legitimate SDs who just need some help are what I think are causing issues and honestly you cannot reach these people with insults, you reach them with understanding, compassion, the we're on the same team mentality, and education.

Some people suck but most are just undereducated.
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