New Addition... "Toy Aussie"

[skittledoo]

Originally Posted by Aleron

Did you see the pictures of the foundation dogs for Mini Aussies? That dog looks a lot like some of them. They weren't bred down from Aussies, the foundation dogs were small and...not Aussies.

It doesn't really matter to me one way or another, it's not my breed. I just hate that there is so much misinformation on the Mini Aussies and feel bad for people who have them constantly being told their dogs are mixes or "not a real breed".

This. Honestly I know a mini aussie personally and she is aussie in every way just in a smaller package. I can completely understand wanting a smaller aussie. Not everyone can have a larger dog or even wants a larger dog, but yet wants the drive and temperament of said bigger dog breed.

[Equinox]

Super sweet looking little girl, but holy crow is Fleetwood GORGEOUS!! He's grown up nicely - I absolutely love him.

[Southpaw]

Aw she's a lucky girl now

[Keechak]

Miniature American Shepherds are supposed to be like Aussies in every way, the only difference between Aussies and Minis (besides the pedigrees and foundation) is the height requirements, Aussies have no height requirements but do have a preferred range that doesn't need to be strictly adhered to and I know many Aussies who are under this preferred range(they are Aussies tho, not Minis)
While the Mini's have a required size of 14-17 inches in the gender range.

You honestly wouldn't be able to tell which breed is which between a large Mini male and a small Aussie female the Mini male may even be bigger than the Aussie female.

Lark's mother is a small Aussie, Hawkeye has a very small littermate sister. I also know an Aussie brother and sister pair who do stock trials out here roughly 16-18 inches in height.

For those who want the Aussie package but want a guaranteed small/medium size I think the Mini American is a great choice. And this little dear does appear to be one. She doesn't have any "toy" characteristics so common among the "miniature" Aussie mixes, although she is a bit light in bone that is a fairly common fault. Have you gotten a chance to measure her? Does she fall within the normal height range for a MAS? at least 13 inches?


And I have noticed a lot of people here using the term "toy" and "Mini" interchangeably, remember there is no toy variety of the MAS just like there is no miniature variety of the Aussie. In fact the MASCA has it's own separate breed standard from the AKC version (MASCUSA) that does not allow for a larger size so they have, on their own, effectively banned Aussies from their shows by not making an allowance for what they claim to be the same breed.

Here is the MASCA breed standard (again this is NOT the AKC club)

Notice how it differs greatly from all other Breed standards of breeds that come in a variety.
Poodle Breed Standard
Dachshund Breed Standard
feel free to look up more.

The biggest difference you will immediately notice, the Poodle and Doxie breed standards actually list the varieties in the standard. While the MASCA breed standard only lists one type of dog and makes no mention of a "Standard" size, yet they claim to be a "Miniature variety" How can you be a variety if there is nothing else in your breed standard to be a variety of?

I LOVE small Aussies I even love a lot of the MASCA dogs but there really is no reason to separate our breed into varieties. I believe the only thing this will accomplish is the same thing it has caused in Poodles and Doxies, separate gene pools within the same breed, and that IMO is a detriment to the breed. Small Aussies are already allowed in the Aussie breed standard.

[Jynx]

Ihave a couple of aussies, normal range in size 21" at the shoulders.

I have alot of friends with mini's and I love them Definitely all the characteristics of standard aussies just in a smaller package.

There are definitely some unscrupulous people out there breeding what they call "toy aussies",,they are pretty noticeable, they seem to have more of a pom/puggy/pap faces..

The OP's very cute girl , looks to me to NOT be what I have seen as "toys", like others have said, she looks more 'mini' to me and may just be smaller package of mini

Very cute! Good luck with her
Diane

[Upendi&Mina]

Originally Posted by Keechak

Miniature American Shepherds are supposed to be like Aussies in every way, the only difference between Aussies and Minis (besides the pedigrees and foundation) is the height requirements, Aussies have no height requirements but do have a preferred range that doesn't need to be strictly adhered to and I know many Aussies who are under this preferred range(they are Aussies tho, not Minis)
While the Mini's have a required size of 14-17 inches in the gender range.

You honestly wouldn't be able to tell which breed is which between a large Mini male and a small Aussie female the Mini male may even be bigger than the Aussie female.

Lark's mother is a small Aussie, Hawkeye has a very small littermate sister. I also know an Aussie brother and sister pair who do stock trials out here roughly 16-18 inches in height.

For those who want the Aussie package but want a guaranteed small/medium size I think the Mini American is a great choice. And this little dear does appear to be one. She doesn't have any "toy" characteristics so common among the "miniature" Aussie mixes, although she is a bit light in bone that is a fairly common fault. Have you gotten a chance to measure her? Does she fall within the normal height range for a MAS? at least 13 inches?


And I have noticed a lot of people here using the term "toy" and "Mini" interchangeably, remember there is no toy variety of the MAS just like there is no miniature variety of the Aussie. In fact the MASCA has it's own separate breed standard from the AKC version (MASCUSA) that does not allow for a larger size so they have, on their own, effectively banned Aussies from their shows by not making an allowance for what they claim to be the same breed.

Here is the MASCA breed standard (again this is NOT the AKC club)

Notice how it differs greatly from all other Breed standards of breeds that come in a variety.
Poodle Breed Standard
Dachshund Breed Standard
feel free to look up more.

The biggest difference you will immediately notice, the Poodle and Doxie breed standards actually list the varieties in the standard. While the MASCA breed standard only lists one type of dog and makes no mention of a "Standard" size, yet they claim to be a "Miniature variety" How can you be a variety if there is nothing else in your breed standard to be a variety of?

I LOVE small Aussies I even love a lot of the MASCA dogs but there really is no reason to separate our breed into varieties. I believe the only thing this will accomplish is the same thing it has caused in Poodles and Doxies, separate gene pools within the same breed, and that IMO is a detriment to the breed. Small Aussies are already allowed in the Aussie breed standard.

I just wanted to second this.

Cara is a small aussie, at right around 18" and 32ish pounds. She's not a large dog by any means.

[Sapphire-Light]

What a face! congrats in taking her in a deaf dog must be hard to train.

[Hillside]

Originally Posted by Upendi&Mina

I just wanted to second this.

Cara is a small aussie, at right around 18" and 32ish pounds. She's not a large dog by any means.

Django was 19ish and 33 pounds and was "just" an Aussie. He wasn't a big boy at all.

I LOVE the picture of her and Fleetwood, it's like he's saying "Mess with my sister and there will be trouble."

[ravennr]

Pretty baby!

Those tiny ones are definitely crossed down with small toy breeds with domed heads. They can try perpetuating that shite all they want but it is obvious to anyone involved in dogs that these little dogs are NOT purebred Aussies.

[Tazwell]

Just for the heck of it, I looked up the size ranges for the Aussies. Dog breed info .com states:


Height, Weight

Tea Cup - Weight: under 12 pounds (5.5 kg.)
Toy - Height: 10-14 inches (26-36 cm.)
Toy - Weight: 12-17 pounds (5.5-8 kg.)
Miniature - Height: 13-18 inches (33-46 cm.)
Miniature - Weight: 20-40 pounds (9-18 kg.)

So according to that, she would be a "teacup" Aussie (yuck. LOL)

But the "Miniature Australian shepherd club of America" states

Size
Preferred height at the withers for males is fourteen (14) to eighteen (18) inches; that for females is fourteen (14) up to but not including eighteen (18) inches. Dogs or bitches above these measurements should be faulted to the degree of variance, however, quality is not to be sacrificed in favor of size. Disqualification: Below 14" at the withers.


And finally, the "Tou Australian Shepherd association of America" says,

II.SIZE, PROPORTION, SUBSTANCE: Size: The height for dogs and bitches is 10 inches up to 14 inches. Note: Height is determined by a line perpendicular to the ground from the top of the shoulder blades, the dog standing naturally, with forelegs parallel to line of measurement. Quality should not be sacrificed in favor of size within the guidelines of this breed standard. Dogs or bitches that are 14 inches and over will be shown as Miniature Australian Shepherds and not as Toy Australian Shepherds. Proportion: Measuring from the breastbone to rear of thigh and from top of the withers to the ground the Toy Australian Shepherd is slightly longer than tall as in 10 to 9. When viewed from the front or rear, he appears sturdy and balanced, neither racy, nor broad. Substance: Bone is moderate and in proportion to body size while maintaining a solid build.
Disqualification: Under 10 inches and 14 inches and over.


I'll have to measure her tomorrow.