Thoughts on Border Collie breeders in/near Ontario?

[Aleron]

Originally Posted by MandyPug

Fancy that! The one I met is from that litter too.

http://www.powertripp.org/whatamess.cfm

Cool dog. Not my type but one to watch for sure. Will probably be seeing him at nationals.

The dog world is a small one for sure! I have seen that dog's RC videos, just never put it together that he was a BC x Beardie and not a Beardie LOL

I like the idea of the working Beardies a lot. Scruffy BCs have always appealed to me (my understanding is this sometimes happens in them) but Beardies have always been a bit too... "cheerleader-y" for me to want to live with. Have loved some of the ones I've known but they're very different from the herders I have had.

[Sekah]

Bumping this thread 'cause I figured this might be as good a place to ask as any.

Those of you who have experience with sporter collies, how well do you find that they settle indoors? I think that's my primary concern. I'm leaning towards a sporter collie (despite the working BC enthusiasts insisting I'm the devil for doing so) but I really really really need a level headed dog who can settle and doesn't fly off the handle when excited.

I'm still really divided on which group of dogs is likely to best meet my needs. I have more experience with sporters, and am a bit intimidated by the working collies, but don't know either on a personal, non-working basis.

[CharlieDog]

I think you'll find that is a line by line thing. I'm not her, but I want to say Elegy's Bean settles a lot better than Steve does/did. Or at least, he learned to settle earlier.

And I'm pretty sure Lizmos Blaze, who's working line, settles quite well also.

[PawsibleDogs]

Having a show/sport bred BC myself, I can tell you if I have another BC it'll be rescue or probably working bred (though I have been really impressed with what I've seen of Rival dogs, so I can't say I wouldn't consider them). My girl struggles with overstimulation/overarousal/lack of self preservation and we're on a bit of an agility hiatus because of it. She isn't the only one in her litter to struggle with those things either.

[Lizmo]

Originally Posted by Sekah

I'm still really divided on which group of dogs is likely to best meet my needs. I have more experience with sporters, and am a bit intimidated by the working collies, but don't know either on a personal, non-working basis.

Don't be. What do you find intimidating about them? Maybe I could ease that worry if I know what you find intimidating about them.

Blaze (working) does have a great off-switch, something I find vitally important in these dogs. Trust me, no one wants a dog that is barking mad while in the kennel and another dog is out working.

Here's a IRL example:
I leave for school about 7:30 each morning. Blaze is left kenneled while I'm gone. I return at 12:00ish. I let him out, he's bouncy and happy. We go leashed outside for a couple minutes. I come back in, find some lunch and then sit down to eat lunch for 45ish minutes. All the while, after being kenneled all morning sleeping, he's sacked out at my feet or quietly messing with a chew.

But when at about 1-2ish when we get ready to go to the park, he's rearing to go run.

For me, this is a good off-switch. Part of having a good off-switch is them knowing when to use it.

[Laurelin]

Originally Posted by PawsibleDogs

Having a show/sport bred BC myself, I can tell you if I have another BC it'll be rescue or probably working bred (though I have been really impressed with what I've seen of Rival dogs, so I can't say I wouldn't consider them). My girl struggles with overstimulation/overarousal/lack of self preservation and we're on a bit of an agility hiatus because of it. She isn't the only one in her litter to struggle with those things either.

Oh hey there!

[Sekah]

Originally Posted by Lizmo

Don't be. What do you find intimidating about them? Maybe I could ease that worry if I know what you find intimidating about them.

Blaze (working) does have a great off-switch, something I find vitally important in these dogs. Trust me, no one wants a dog that is barking mad while in the kennel and another dog is out working.

Here's a IRL example:
I leave for school about 7:30 each morning. Blaze is left kenneled while I'm gone. I return at 12:00ish. I let him out, he's bouncy and happy. We go leashed outside for a couple minutes. I come back in, find some lunch and then sit down to eat lunch for 45ish minutes. All the while, after being kenneled all morning sleeping, he's sacked out at my feet or quietly messing with a chew.

But when at about 1-2ish when we get ready to go to the park, he's rearing to go run.

For me, this is a good off-switch. Part of having a good off-switch is them knowing when to use it.

Here are a few things I find intimidating/worrying about them:

- In "herd mode" all the time. I see one BC in my neighbourhood stalking down the street in a perpetual, well, stalk every time I see him. He's so intense and turned on that he's always a stresscase. Some of this is probably a training issue, but...

- The culture. The working BC enthusiasts I'm meeting (via the interwebs) are all pretty hardcore into herding culture, the preservation of the breed, and all pretty dismissive of sporter collie breeders & their dogs. My dog will likely never work sheep and may never even see one. Do I want to get a dog bred for work when it will never have the opportunity to do so?

- The dog's ability to cope. I'm getting mixed messages with the temperament of working BCs vs sport. I'm worried I'll end up getting a highly independent dog who has a hard time recovering from stressful events or coping with life in the city. I hear conflicting reports of the rate of dog reactivity/aggression in working vs. sport lines.

Does that make sense? I think it'll really boil down to the lines of the dog I get though as there's going to be good and bad breeders/lines on either side of the split.

[Lizmo]

Originally Posted by Sekah

Here are a few things I find intimidating/worrying about them:

- In "herd mode" all the time. I see one BC in my neighbourhood stalking down the street in a perpetual, well, stalk every time I see him. He's so intense and turned on that he's always a stresscase. Some of this is probably a training issue, but...

- The culture. The working BC enthusiasts I'm meeting (via the interwebs) are all pretty hardcore into herding culture, the preservation of the breed, and all pretty dismissive of sporter collie breeders & their dogs. My dog will likely never work sheep and may never even see one. Do I want to get a dog bred for work when it will never have the opportunity to do so?

- The dog's ability to cope. I'm getting mixed messages with the temperament of working BCs vs sport. I'm worried I'll end up getting a highly independent dog who has a hard time recovering from stressful events or coping with life in the city. I hear conflicting reports of the rate of dog reactivity/aggression in working vs. sport lines.

Does that make sense? I think it'll really boil down to the lines of the dog I get though as there's going to be good and bad breeders/lines on either side of the split.

Yes, this makes sense. These are all valid concerns for someone new to the breed. Here's my response:


To the first question concerning, "herd mode." This takes knowing the breed, meeting dogs. To the newb eye, Blaze comes off this same way. He walks with tail down, ears back, head low (but no sniffing) and in a way that looks "stalkerish." It's just the way he walks, he's always walked like this. Many, even dogs I've seen at agility (I don't know the breeding, but I'm assuming there is a good mix of lines at these events) walk similar to this, unless actively engaged with their handler. I think it's more a breed thing.

When he's infront of me walking, this is my view of him:




That 'herding' instinct is what they are naturally prone to do - that's the breed. Where that changes is what you teach them is acceptable to use that instinct on.

We can go from walking like that, to a nice heel that looks like this with a simple word or two.


I think it really boils down to training. Training is key, and I think with whatever type/line/whatever you decide to go with, you'll be fine.


Okay, I have to run, but I'll be back to address the last two tonight!!

[Dizzy]

Having grown up with collies, I'm so happy I didn't have the Internet then. Honestly, sometimes I think knowledge is power, sometimes I think it inhibits things.

All the collies I've known, and that's a fair few, have actually made amazing house dogs. Theyre not some alien breed that needs something a different breed needs.


I'm saying this as someone who recently bought a show line gun dog, and thinks, actually... Meh, could have gone working line.


It's all in your head.

[Oko]

As for wanting to herd things all the time/being aloof, I don't have a BC but I can say that when I went to a USBCHA sheepdog trial, the moment the open class dogs (the novice dogs were sometimes naughty) were told 'That'll Do', they were done with the sheep. They'd go over to the water tank and lie down, and watch the next dog make their outrun and work the sheep, while being inside the fenced area, and not even bat an eye.

There were also quite a few off-leash with their owners while waiting to run, and they just stuck by them and chilled, or snuggled for petting. A couple people had them on their laps. This was a fair as well as a trial, so it was quite busy and loud. Not at all what I would have expected. I'd say it's definitely in the right person raising the dog the right way.

As for the culture, I have to say the people off the internet seem much more chill about the entire thing. To be clear, as far as I can tell no one on that BC forum wants people not to have them as pets, just not bred as pets. I have received a warm welcome from both breeders I emailed, even though I don't want a stockdog, or to do any specific dog sports.