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  #21  
Old 01-14-2013, 10:18 AM
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Shai Shai is offline
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Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
But then you bred a dog that didn't have it in them... no?

I honestly don't care that much but I worry that it's a relative cop-out for most dogs to claim inability to title before breeding.

Sloan has been barely trialed (due to time and money), compared to those who campaign, with a brand spanking new handler and she has entry level titles and is ready to trial in mid level categories in agility, obedience, and schutzhund. She's also a world invitee for two dock diving organizations, she's been tested at barn hunts, has her CGC, has dappled in k9NW, and many other extra funs to evaluate her. That said, she's under 3 and all of this was accomplished before 2.5.

Some dogs mature later (Backups line is notorious for waiting until 2-3 to "normalize"), some handlers struggle, but far too often it begs the question: if you can't put anything on the dog before two years old how is it you've really tested (put their drive, social stability, structure, and brain to the test in a more challenging setting than the back yard or a training field) the dog for breed worthiness? If this can be answered reasonably then, to each their own.
^This bears reading twice.

Heck even my little velociraptor terrier who came home at 1 year old to a rookie trainer with no intentions of trialing ever had his ARCHX and RL3 and U-CD (APDT rally championship title, level 3 title, and novice obedience title) before the age of 3. And he was a fairly major project dog with a questionable temperament to start.

Yeah they aren't super high end titles but they are a fairly strong objective measurement of his ability to work in such an environment (even stronger if you consider his scores) and as a result of them and the training that went in to them I could speak more thoroughly and with specific examples about his drives, personality, quirks, ability to deal with pressure, etc. Like I said before, it doesn't have to be the highest of levels...not everyone has that kind of time/money/etc., but this is not an all-or-nothing scenario.

A very experienced breeder who is also getting objective evaluaions from a knowledgeable third party (or parties) and who works the dogs in non-titling ways, fine. But especially for relatively rookie breeders? Sounds like a cop-out.
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  #22  
Old 01-14-2013, 10:50 AM
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I just don't understand the rush to breed a dog anyway. Hell I didn't decide mine was good enough until she was 5. Often early titles in the show ring or beginner titles in sports means not much. You never see APBT who title as puppies still out there kicking butts as veterans but the females have sure had 4 litters by 7.

What about people who never keep anything they breed and farm them out? You think those breeders actively participate that much? Seen cases more often than not where puppy homes title the dogs and through a loophole the dogs get taken back by the breeder who is also a co owner. One case I can remember is the Ashs The dogs that are Ash-Larum? Those were all repo'd over a stupid reason and the Ashs got out of the breed. This was 2001 or so. There are lots more.

Pros and cons of everything but still, why rush to breed anything? You can't really tell if your line falls apart later by rushing anything. What is the longevity of the dogs you are working with?
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  #23  
Old 01-15-2013, 02:34 AM
estins
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You are not right. I am assured. I suggest it to discuss.
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  #24  
Old 01-15-2013, 09:36 AM
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You are not right. I am assured. I suggest it to discuss.
Oh please can someone get rid of this person ^^^^ just tired of it.
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  #25  
Old 01-15-2013, 09:40 AM
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Oh, I feel they have a good point... lol
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  #26  
Old 01-15-2013, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
Oh, I feel they have a good point... lol
PM to discuss.
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  #27  
Old 01-15-2013, 12:45 PM
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PM to discuss.
Your argument has a error. I am of the thinking I can fix. Please PM to discuss.
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