Malinois people.. advice? (/got bit the other day)

[stardogs]

Yea they need a good trainer ASAP. This is way too much for you to try handling as a walker.

The fact that they can't be separated without possible injury PLUS the over the top behavior before the walk even starts means the owners need to be on board and put some heavy work in before expecting someone else to get the dogs to be responsive to them.

I hate stories like this. They just sound like normal mals who haven't gotten the training and structure they need, let alone exercise and mental stimulation.

[Fran101]

Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel

These dogs are an accident waiting to happen, I really don't think it's your place as a walker to "fix" them without a trainer.


They need a lot of calm and control work. My dogs are nuts but it's a focused nuts, these dogs sound over stimulated by their entire environment.

Does your boss partner with trainers ever? Could they?

We have a trainer but I mean..she does puppy class and basic behavioral stuff.. I could perhaps talk to her about going to see them but at this point my boss is beyond trying to handle this and just wants to drop them.

Over stimulated by their whole environment is a good way to put it..

Originally Posted by Maliraptor

I don't think you should be walking these dogs. I'm sorry, I know you want to help and get them out, but think of the liability if someone else you're walking by leans down to tie their shoe.

This is a great example of why the Malinois is not for everyone. If they were YOUR dogs, and/or you could do obedience with them, it would be a different story completely. But even if you could take the occasional misdirected nip, you can't tell them NOT to do that to someone else.

I agree with the others, these dogs need more work, with their owners, before being walked by a dog walker.

The liability (I mean other than with me) is also what kind of gets me.. I do what I can.. I lock the door, I walk them at off times when no-one is out, take back ways, YELL at people from afar to stay away..

but I'm 5'2.. they weigh more than me put together and although they don't PULL (they just spin and bark and lean but they've never been pullers) I know if they got it in their heads to pull me somewhere..they very well could.

It just sucks. They really aren't mean.. and I know they do like the exercise.

Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel

Sounds like typical male and female malinois, imo. Honestly, (like in my previous post, sorry DP) they need a trainer. Are they like this with the owners? My dogs, as I have said, would not be appropriate for dog walker care, these may not be either unless you pair up with a trainer (you should be getting paid more than an average walk) and begin a regiment.

They aren't like this with their owners. I mean, they are just as LOUD at home when their owners come home/before walks but on walks.. totally different dogs.
They heel perfectly (they don't pull with me but they aren't like..perfect heel either), don't bark at things, look at them while walking. They are still reactive to dogs but they don't bark at people/bikes/trucks. They are so FOCUSED with them..

It's just so frustrating. I want to help these dogs but it's just so stressful dealing with them..

Right now, the owners are reaching out and want to try a few walks with them and me to see if they can teach me I guess.

I really don't think these dogs are going to listen to me bark commands in german.

[AdrianneIsabel]

Originally Posted by Fran101

It's just so frustrating. I want to help these dogs but it's just so stressful dealing with them..

Right now, the owners are reaching out and want to try a few walks with them and me to see if they can teach me I guess.

I understand and you're a good person, please be very careful if you continue with them. I think it may be extremely irresponsible of the owners to try and continue but I could be incorrect.

What about training them to accept muzzles?

[stardogs]

Hmm. It's good that the dogs respond much better to their owners, but I'm still skeptical that they can transfer their skills to you in such a way that the liability goes down.

Seeing how the owners set the dogs up for walks could be very informative (there may be a routine you aren't fully aware of) and I would definitely have them give you the command words and help you practice with them.

I'm glad they are willing to work with you, just be careful and try not to let the cute faces get to you if they ask you to try walking again before you're comfortable.

[CatStina]

I have no advice, just wanted to say that you are an awesome person for trying to figure something out in this situation!

[Saeleofu]

What about training them to accept muzzles?

This could be a temporary solution. Both my dogs are trained to accept basket muzzles "just in case" and all my future dogs will be too. They shove their face in the muzzle because they know it comes with high rewards.

[Fran101]

Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel

I understand and you're doing a good thing, please be very careful if you continue with them. I think it may be extremely irresponsible of the owners to try and continue but I could be incorrect.

What about training them to accept muzzles?

If the owners could get them used to it.. I would be 100% for it. I'll suggest it to them.
As it is honestly.. I think this will be my last week with them. Regardless, muzzle training or no.. my boss doesn't want the liability. She isn't very happy about how they responded to the incident.

They were apologetic but not..surprised. It was kind of like "Oh we are sooo soo sorry! Oh she bent down to tie her shoe..ya.. I can see that.." and they started talking about how it was probably him re-directing his frustrations.
My boss is not happy.
From the early stages, they said these dogs were LOUD and active and drivey.. but not a bite risk AT ALL. and it seems (from their casual use of the term re-direction) that they sort of knew.

The idea of two active dogs and one small walker was already pushing it with her.. but they do better with girls and I was the only one that would go near them.
but the thin ice has kind of broken up at this point with everything else on top of that.

[Aleron]

I think there wasn't any "warning" about the bite because it wasn't that kind of bite. It was about overstimation and not threatening.

My thought reading this is...are they open to using bark collars on the dogs? I have seen bark collars work wonders on dogs who act like this. When they can't get into the frantic barking, it prevents them from working themselves into a frenzy. Or at least, it helps keep them from going into overload. I would also make sure there were always plenty of toys for them to get their mouth on as soon as they come out if thd crate. I would probably not try to work on waiting until they're calm to let them out at this point. I'm worried that will backfire and get them more wound up, while creating barrier frustration...with you on the other side of thd barrier. Now if their owners could get them doing Crate Games and really solid on it, that would be different. It doesn't sound like that is likely though.

[Fran101]

Originally Posted by stardogs

Hmm. It's good that the dogs respond much better to their owners, but I'm still skeptical that they can transfer their skills to you in such a way that the liability goes down.

Seeing how the owners set the dogs up for walks could be very informative (there may be a routine you aren't fully aware of) and I would definitely have them give you the command words and help you practice with them.

I'm glad they are willing to work with you, just be careful and try not to let the cute faces get to you if they ask you to try walking again before you're comfortable.

They did walk me through how they prepare.. so hopefully they can give me some commands that would be helpful. If nothing else I'd like to at least be able to know how to say SIT or WAIT or something.

They are decent nice people.. and very active (on the weekends) and their dogs do seem well trained with them and they do LOVE their dogs.
I just wish they had more time for their dogs..
It's not my place to ask I just wish I understood why they have two malinois when they work such long hours or why they have them in the first place. I mean.. of all breeds for two surgeons to have.

I really won't be walking them alone until I am 100% sure. Cute as they may be...As it is, I worry about being too jumpy around them, especially the male who I was more comfortable with. and jumpy is not good..

[Fran101]

Originally Posted by Aleron

I think there wasn't any "warning" about the bite because it wasn't that kind of bite. It was about overstimation and not threatening.

My thought reading this is...are they open to using bark collars on the dogs? I have seen bark collars work wonders on dogs who act like this. When they can't get into the frantic barking, it prevents them from working themselves into a frenzy. Or at least, it helps keep them from going into overload. I would also make sure there were always plenty of toys for them to get their mouth on as soon as they come out if thd crate. I would probably not try to work on waiting until they're calm to let them out at this point. I'm worried that will backfire and get them more wound up, while creating barrier frustration...with you on the other side of thd barrier. Now if their owners could get them doing Crate Games and really solid on it, that would be different. It doesn't sound like that is likely though.

I don't think waiting will do it. They get worse the more time that goes on.. I checked my phone once and I thought he was going to break his teeth on his crate or give himself a heart attack. I would worry what waiting even longer would do..

thing is, I'm not even in the position to be giving the owners training advice. It's just..not like that. They want to teach me some things but they seem pretty set in how they are doing things/how these dogs are managed. They do TRAIN these dogs but it's a lot of heel work and stuff and not things like crate games and waiting patiently..

I will ask if they've ever tried bark collars. Honestly.. I don't think anything would deter them from barking when they are in that state. Or I would worry what they would do if they couldn't bark.

It's just such a weird line to kind of teeter on. There is only so much I can do/say to them really (their owners). And as for the dogs, I am only with them an hour or so a day