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  #161  
Old 01-06-2013, 04:07 PM
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Aleron Aleron is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
Did you see my question about German coolies v Australian Koolies?
I wonder this too. Avalon seems pretty firm in the belief they are two separate breeds, yet says her dogs and the Koolies we know best on Chaz share common dogs in their pedigrees. Wouldn't that make the Avalon dogs Coolie x Koolie mixed breeds?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieDog View Post

There's something similar overall in the Koolie's structure that makes it look like a Koolie to me. Even with the PyrSheps, because I don't KNOW that breed, I can't tell they were all PyrSheps, but someone who DOES; CAN.
It's true, although there are some very convincing mixed breed lookalikes out there! Especially with the SFs. Friends of mine had a dog they got from the pound in the 90s who really, looked very much like a SF black PyrShep. Speciafically looked like the dogs from the litter agility PyrSheps Luka and Boo came from. If someone had him at a PyrShep get together and didn't say he wasn't one...I'm not sure anyone would have questioned it. I have seen some solid merle mini-Aussies who were pretty good SF look a likes too (and actually, have heard people at shows thinking the natural bobtail SF merle was maybe a working bred Aussie). Really though...Aussie or PyrShep?













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  #162  
Old 01-06-2013, 04:09 PM
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I know! I know! Haha, I've been researching these two breeds way too much. I recognize all but one of those pictures.
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  #163  
Old 01-06-2013, 04:16 PM
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Upendi&Mina Upendi&Mina is offline
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The first four are aussies, the last three are pyr sheps if I had to guess.
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  #164  
Old 01-06-2013, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
I know! I know! Haha, I've been researching these two breeds way too much. I recognize all but one of those pictures.
LOL too funny! I'd recognize all the PyrSheps for sure
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  #165  
Old 01-06-2013, 04:17 PM
Psyfalcon Psyfalcon is offline
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By bringing them to North America though, you are creating a bottle neck, and the breed will diverge from the originals in some way. The Siberian for example does not look or work exactly like the first imports did if you look at modern racing or show lines. The ones that are most like those are the ones working in a way as close to the original as possible.

Quote:
Registries available for information and record keeping on this breed:
.Koolie Club of Australia
.Working Koolie Club
.Aus. Coolie Council
.International GC Society & Registry Aus.branch
.International GC Society & Registry USA branch

They all have a code of ethics and a breed standard (some differ from others), records of dogs and kennels. German Coolies have had a record kept of them in Aus and overseas by the IGCS&R.
I can't find a standard at the Koolie Club of Aus. There is no web presence for the Aus. Coolie Council or the Working Coolie Club.

You say they DO have a standard, yet, from the Koolie Club of Australia,
Quote:
For this reason we have not laid down a 'breed standard' at this time as we accept that the different styles of Koolies suit the many and varied jobs they undertake. We also feel that we need to give the breed time to evolve a little before trying to mould the physical attributes to a 'standard'.
They do however, list this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.australian-koolies.info/Koolie%20Fundamentals%202012.pdf
The Key Features of the Koolie

There are both key features and discretional features of the breed. I consider the
following to be the essential features: -
• A strong herding instinct.
• Sound temperament.
• Speed and agility.
• Stamina.
• Good sensory function - vision, hearing and ‘nose’.
• Appropriate conformation.
Which is laughably imprecise, except they go on to describe a standard. It includes:
Quote:
(h) Eyes:
The eyes should be rounded and obvious, showing an intelligent and eager
expression. A strong stare of the eyes is important in maintaining the attention of the
animals being herded.
So there is no standard, except for one saying you should breed for an eager expression. You have what seems to be a breed club saying the breed must evolve, yet much of the membership is quite against this, at least from a non-herding perspective.
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  #166  
Old 01-06-2013, 04:18 PM
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I even know the kennel names of a few of those.

One day I will get another herding breed. lol
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  #167  
Old 01-06-2013, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
I even know the kennel names of a few of those.

One day I will get another herding breed. lol
I immediately recognized the Slash V dog in there. One day I will have a dog from Terry.
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  #168  
Old 01-06-2013, 04:29 PM
avaloncoolies avaloncoolies is offline
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Toolalla refers to his dogs as Australian Coolies with a C....his way "of remaining in the middle" i guess...and I do think of his dogs as more German Coolie then Aus. Koolie for sure...this breed is very young, I have said it before so yes it does need to establish, I can think of many breeds still establishing themselves that are more older then the coolie...
  #169  
Old 01-06-2013, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron View Post
It's true, although there are some very convincing mixed breed lookalikes out there! Especially with the SFs. Friends of mine had a dog they got from the pound in the 90s who really, looked very much like a SF black PyrShep. Speciafically looked like the dogs from the litter agility PyrSheps Luka and Boo came from. If someone had him at a PyrShep get together and didn't say he wasn't one...I'm not sure anyone would have questioned it. I have seen some solid merle mini-Aussies who were pretty good SF look a likes too (and actually, have heard people at shows thinking the natural bobtail SF merle was maybe a working bred Aussie).
This is true too. Ozzy could pass as a Koolie, with little issue I think. Especially if I had taped his ears to stand.







Even as a puppy, he looks similar to Trav as a puppy. Not so much Didgie or the other one (HAHA)





And at about 7 months old or so, he looks less Aussie/JRT and more Koolie




So if he could herd, and herd like a Koolie, would that have made him one? Because if he herded like a Border Collie, he could be a Border Collie. He's a rather upright in the rear dog though, and if he had a bob tail or it had been docked he could pass for a short coated Aussie (he does have a double coat)
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  #170  
Old 01-06-2013, 04:35 PM
avaloncoolies avaloncoolies is offline
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And each Club has their own "breed standard" or in the example you gave no breed standard but a "guideline" more like....other have more specific standards, it is working ability geared yes, i have said that also from the start...this is a old (on australias history scale) working breed from australia, bred for working (not sports or conformation) from the best worker to the best worker...
100+years ago best worker to best worker was this guys englishsheepdog type, to german tiger from the farm next door...or smithfield from Howard farm to a carea leones from the spanish rancher from the community over...or maybe english BC to smooth collie etc....etc...and then add some wild dingo in there (remember we are in 1880's here)...by 1920's breedings are more perticular to "the merle german workers" as they built a reputation as hardy, strong workers for the german settlers...
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