Coolies

[Laurelin]

This is an Aussie: http://www.risingsunfarm.com/photos/...r-Stand-lg.jpg

This is an aussie (roja): http://www.adastrafarm.com/Australia...0/Default.aspx

http://users.htcomp.net/slashv/pocket.htm

Aussie: http://www.risingsunfarm.com/pedigrees/june.html

Buddy: http://www.adastrafarm.com/Australia...2/Default.aspx

http://www.c-meaussies.com/ruby.htm

http://users.telenet.be/somekindofmagic/inda.htm

Just as a quick example from Aussies.

I'm just trying to say that there's a lot of similarity in the breeds.

[AdrianneIsabel]

Originally Posted by Oko

I know a 22 lb border collie and a 65+ lb one, if that helps you understand where I'm coming from.

Is that okay? Lets expand, how about 15 lb and 115lbs?

What makes a border collie, a border collie?

[Oko]

What makes a border collie a border collie is how they do stockwork. At least, IMO, and I find quite a large amount of people tend to agree. To each their own, obviously, and if your opinion differs that's fine with me. It is thought provoking to ponder.

Considering that both dogs in question are great at doing their work, yeah okay. Why would it be wrong? I feel like this thread may be getting derailed from the subject matter, perhaps if the discussion about what makes a breed a breed were continued in a new thread, that'd make more sense? Then again, threads usually are quite fluid. I just don't want to hijack. :P

[Grab]

I know little about K/Coolies (or herding breeds in general) aside from what I've seen on here, but I think weight fluctuations are fairly common in some of the herding breeds where there is a large population of strictly working dogs, isn't it? And Aussies and Border Collies do vary quite a bit...even on this board, compare Cara to Merlin. Both Aussies. Both (I assume) correct. Quite a bit different, looks wise.

And now I'm going back to my boring asian dogs and will just follow along this thread with reading, lol.

[Laurelin]

I think it's just that there wasn't really a physical 'standard' for many of these breeds during development as a purely working breed. I'm not saying looks played no role, they certainly did in pretty much any breed I can think of, it's just that there was nothing written in stone. People have preferences and you see variety in type. Some groups have gone on to try to make a standard but in the purely farm/ranch type lines and breeds you're going to see a lot more variety (which koolies sound like they are pretty purely at this point).

I don't know why people think avalon's dogs don't look like koolies. I think they do.

Whether they should have a standard written up is another question, imo.

[JessLough]

Originally Posted by Laurelin

I think it's just that there wasn't really a physical 'standard' for many of these breeds during development as a purely working breed. I'm not saying looks played no role, they certainly did in pretty much any breed I can think of, it's just that there was nothing written in stone. People have preferences and you see variety in type. Some groups have gone on to try to make a standard but in the purely farm/ranch type lines and breeds you're going to see a lot more variety (which koolies sound like they are pretty purely at this point).

I don't know why people think avalon's dogs don't look like koolies. I think they do.

Whether they should have a standard written up is another question, imo.

It's because they look different. They are not the same as Toolalla (sp?) koolies, so it's not what people are used to seeing.

[AdrianneIsabel]

To me a standardized temperament and look is what makes a line or type of dog into a breed.

Breeding true, producing similarity in more than one aspect.

Otherwise you have a "type" and in that theory I could breed anything (any dog, sharing bloodlines or not" and have a border collie as long as it herds the same way, no?

[Laurelin]

Originally Posted by JessLough

It's because they look different. They are not the same as Toolalla (sp?) koolies, so it's not what people are used to seeing.

I don't see it. Honestly, I don't.

[JessLough]

Originally Posted by Laurelin

I don't see it. Honestly, I don't.

You... don't see a difference between these dogs and Trav and the girls?

The longer hair, the different ears... that's what I'm talking about Oh, and they're not merle.

Again, I don't think they look like BCs either. But, I can see that there are differences (though again, a few could be condition issues)

[Laurelin]

Originally Posted by JessLough

You... don't see a difference between these dogs and Trav and the girls?

The longer hair, the different ears... that's what I'm talking about

No, not any more than I see a difference between Steve and Blaze and Finn and Wesley. Or Cara and Hawk and Kechara and Merlin.