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  #221  
Old 01-03-2013, 03:08 AM
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Dizzy Dizzy is offline
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This was a bit of a witch hunt from start to finish from ALL sides. There's no innocent party here.

What a shame another person has been driven off, and in their own introduction thread...!

Pretty sure she could have contributed a lot.
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  #222  
Old 01-03-2013, 03:11 AM
JessLough JessLough is offline
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Originally Posted by JessLough View Post
Welcome from a fellow Canadian!

To upload pictures, you need to use a hosting site, such as photobucket or flickr. Upload the photos, and then get the link to the photos from there, and insert the link between [IMG] link here [/IMG] without the spaces!
Well **** it, you caught me. I thought I'd get her to spill EVERYTHING by... helping her uploading pictures. Yep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
This was a bit of a witch hunt from start to finish from ALL sides. There's no innocent party here.

What a shame another person has been driven off, and in their own introduction thread...!

Pretty sure she could have contributed a lot.
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  #223  
Old 01-03-2013, 03:12 AM
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Dizzy Dizzy is offline
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And tbe hypocrisy is one breeder is off Scot free because they're old and won't change their ways (and you can hardly grill someone you've bought several dogs off right?), yet Avalon is grilled just cos. When tgeyve already said they hold her in high regard. Doesn't make sense to me.

So Avalon cant call them young, but Richie gets away with blue murder because he's an old rancher?

Eh?
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"Dogs are our link to paradise. They do not know jealousy or discontent. To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden, where doing nothing wasn't boring, it was peace."


Bodhi is the opposite of ignorance, the insight into reality which destroys mental afflictions and brings peace.

Owned by Bodhi Booglaoo and Fredington Holbein


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  #224  
Old 01-03-2013, 03:13 AM
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Dizzy Dizzy is offline
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Originally Posted by JessLough View Post
Well **** it, you caught me. I thought I'd get her to spill EVERYTHING by... helping her uploading pictures. Yep.
Why is everything always about you?
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"Dogs are our link to paradise. They do not know jealousy or discontent. To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden, where doing nothing wasn't boring, it was peace."


Bodhi is the opposite of ignorance, the insight into reality which destroys mental afflictions and brings peace.

Owned by Bodhi Booglaoo and Fredington Holbein


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  #225  
Old 01-03-2013, 03:20 AM
SevenSins
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Why is everything always about you?
My guess is that it's because you made a blanket statement about everyone who posted in this thread and Jess can only speak as/for herself?
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  #226  
Old 01-03-2013, 03:28 AM
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Dizzy Dizzy is offline
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My guess is that it's because you made a blanket statement about everyone who posted in this thread and Jess can only speak as/for herself?
Not everyone, just didn't single any one person out. Just feels a bit off... Like Richie koolies are bad, but hey we can breed from them... And Avalon we like except they don't test but can't breed from so that's really bad.

And the that it was said they won't question him because he's set in his ways, but Avalon is set in her ways ans that's bad?

This person isn't here to defend themselves either way, but surely we can't drive one person off for their choices if we can all choose to do what we want anyway (ie get any dog from any source?)?

Just really don't get how its ok for one but not another?
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"Dogs are our link to paradise. They do not know jealousy or discontent. To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden, where doing nothing wasn't boring, it was peace."


Bodhi is the opposite of ignorance, the insight into reality which destroys mental afflictions and brings peace.

Owned by Bodhi Booglaoo and Fredington Holbein


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  #227  
Old 01-03-2013, 03:32 AM
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Sit Stay Sit Stay is offline
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Avalon was asked politely and in a concise way by neutral parties why she would X-ray but not go the next step and certify. Understandable - the xraying tends to be the expensive part and certifying does have its benefits. A couple people may have mentioned that she may be losing out on puppy buyers because of this, which is another very valid point. If she had answered these questions head on with good grammar and sentence structure, I dont think this thread would be 20 pages of finger pointing and crying. I do think she has valuable knowledge and experience. Instead, Avalon tip toed around any politely asked questions and played the "woe is me!" "I'm being attacked" card. If that was being "attacked" I'd hate to approach her about a problem with a puppy, etc. That was nothing.

Linds' breeder has been hashed out on here in the past. On different occasions even of I recall correctly. I think Linds knows that he is controversial and that some people disagree with her breeder choice and they would not make the same. The difference is he is not on Chazhound and Avalon was/is, so naturally people are curious about what is standard with the breed and why certain things are not done (like health testing).

Good riddance, in my opinion, if she ever does leave. To be so angry with young girls over hearsay and rumors is so cowardly and stupid. Avalon is digging her own grave here with this attitude and serious lack of tact. There is a chance my mom will get a Koolie for her next dog - do you think we will revisit Shawn's dogs now? No chance! Having a good relationship, built on trust, with a breeder is important for us. This "rancher" (acreage and miniature horses?) just made herself look incredibly unstable and close minded.

I just feel that we are lucky enough to have three polite, helpful Koolie owners on here. From the sounds of it they are slim pickings in some of the Koolie circles!
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  #228  
Old 01-03-2013, 03:51 AM
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Dizzy Dizzy is offline
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Originally Posted by Sit Stay View Post
Avalon was asked politely and in a concise way by neutral parties why she would X-ray but not go the next step and certify. Understandable - the xraying tends to be the expensive part and certifying does have its benefits. A couple people may have mentioned that she may be losing out on puppy buyers because of this, which is another very valid point. If she had answered these questions head on with good grammar and sentence structure, I dont think this thread would be 20 pages of finger pointing and crying. I do think she has valuable knowledge and experience. Instead, Avalon tip toed around any politely asked questions and played the "woe is me!" "I'm being attacked" card. If that was being "attacked" I'd hate to approach her about a problem with a puppy, etc. That was nothing.

Linds' breeder has been hashed out on here in the past. On different occasions even of I recall correctly. I think Linds knows that he is controversial and that some people disagree with her breeder choice and they would not make the same. The difference is he is not on Chazhound and Avalon was/is, so naturally people are curious about what is standard with the breed and why certain things are not done (like health testing).

Good riddance, in my opinion, if she ever does leave. To be so angry with young girls over hearsay and rumors is so cowardly and stupid. Avalon is digging her own grave here with this attitude and serious lack of tact. There is a chance my mom will get a Koolie for her next dog - do you think we will revisit Shawn's dogs now? No chance! Having a good relationship, built on trust, with a breeder is important for us. This "rancher" (acreage and miniature horses?) just made herself look incredibly unstable and close minded.

I just feel that we are lucky enough to have three polite, helpful Koolie owners on here. From the sounds of it they are slim pickings in some of the Koolie circles!


Ok, thanks for explaining to me.... I still don't get it, but I can see why you are angry at least on your part.


One thing, sentence structure and grammar don't come naturally to everyone.. You can't judge someone on that. That's a bit unfair! I usually type on my phone for example, so don't spend time on how I'm writing, and others just suck at grammar... I hate grammar for one. Couldn't tell you what a semi colon is if you pointed one out to me.
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"Dogs are our link to paradise. They do not know jealousy or discontent. To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden, where doing nothing wasn't boring, it was peace."


Bodhi is the opposite of ignorance, the insight into reality which destroys mental afflictions and brings peace.

Owned by Bodhi Booglaoo and Fredington Holbein


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  #229  
Old 01-03-2013, 06:47 AM
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Shai Shai is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
This was a bit of a witch hunt from start to finish from ALL sides. There's no innocent party here.

What a shame another person has been driven off, and in their own introduction thread...!

Pretty sure she could have contributed a lot.
I was one of the first people to ask the question back on page five and it was a genuine question. Not a demand to health test but an true inquiry as to why one would go through the expense and time of X-rays then not take the relatively small, but important to a breed's development, step of recording the results with some objective and public agency.

I think it's frustrating to many people here (who are not in any way involved in the Koolie "controversy") to have an established breeder of Koolies on the forum and think, at last we can find out why Koolie breeders don't health test! Not second-hand information but straight from one of the sources! And then be playing in a house of mirrors with constant deflections and distractions and accusations of agendas instead of a straight answer, and then when the straight answer comes (cost and time) it doesn't really make sense since most of both the cost and the time are already being expended, according to our own experiences with having hip rads done. The question regarding eye tests and such (being a collie breed) was, to my knowledge, never addressed at all.

I really don't think it's a double-standard beyond all of this already being hashed out with Linds and SaraB regarding their breeder choice and no one really wanting to get back into it. People understand their choice or don't, or vehemently disagree with their choice, but in general I think folks understand it because they answered straight. As a contrast to this thread, where pulling an answer out of all the unsubstantiated claims and other unrelated drama was downright difficult.

Chazzers tend to care about and be knowledgeable about dogs in general. Koolies tend to incite special interest because they seem to be a breed that would fit so many of us very well...but there are so many unknowns and skeletons in closets that it's hard to justify actually taking that step especially for those of us who are involved in any sort of strenuous activity with out dogs and want to stack the odds as best we can.

As we've seen many times on this forum, no matter how knowledgeable a person is, their contribution will always be limited by their ability and willingness to engage in respectful open discussion. The respect may have been lacking as this thread devolved and people became frustrated, but to say it was a witch hunt from start to finish is rather exaggerated. I know several of us (Aleron, Laurelin, myself, etc.) did try to remain polite and just get answers and discuss, but those answers were not forthcoming.
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  #230  
Old 01-03-2013, 07:12 AM
stardogs stardogs is offline
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What Shai said.

I was watching the thread from the get go, and tbh, was hoping Avalon would bring another dimension to the C/Koolie population on the board. She's very correct that we are only seeing Koolies from one breeder and thus may not be getting the full picture of the breed as a whole and with the heavy Koolie-want on Chaz recently, different perspectives are always a good thing.

When she started acting evasive and defensive, I initially brushed it off as part of the C/Koolie faction issues, but when it continued despite additional information provided on the costs of OFA'ing xrays already taken and escalated to her deriding Linds and Sara on something as ridiculous as age, she lost me and really has made me wonder if she's truly hiding some things.
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