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  #11  
Old 12-01-2012, 08:38 PM
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I've heard that the paste isn't always properly mixed (not always evenly distributed throughout the tube)... of course if you're giving the whole syringe to a horse it doesn't matter but if you're only giving a few ccs to a dog it's less certain how much of the drug you're giving them. Just be careful! It's one of those things that once you know there's a problem it's already serious.
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  #12  
Old 12-01-2012, 09:37 PM
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The horse paste tubes scare me, because the dosage is so VERY different. The paste is a different % from the liquid, which is different from the Monthly Pills. I've even heard VETS give the incorrect dosage for the liquid wormer.
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  #13  
Old 12-02-2012, 08:48 AM
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Wow, lots of different information on here.

I use ivermectin on my ACD's. 1/10 of a ml/10 lbs. Never had an issue. I have two friends with shelties who do the same.

I'd actually heard the opposite from BostonBanker. I thought (read this in a study a while back) that the dose needed to hurt an MDR1 dog would be higher than the normal monthly heartworm dose by a pretty significant amount. The study said giving immodium to MDR1 dogs was more dangerous than giving monthly ivermectin for heartworms.
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  #14  
Old 12-02-2012, 09:26 AM
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The doses used for heartworm preventative are low enough to be safe even for dogs with the MDR1 mutation. Washington State University, who does the MDR1 testing, has a lot of good information:

Overview:
http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts-vcpl/

Drugs of concern (note that pretty much ALL heartworm preventatives are on the list, including ones that have a reputation for being "safe" - safe vs not safe is all dose dependent, not drug dependent):
http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts-VCPL/drugs.aspx

FAQs (with a special notation about heartworm preventatives):
http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts-VCPL/FAQ.aspx

How to test your dog:
http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts-VCPL/test.aspx

Having said all that, I would use the liquid and shake the bottle up well so the drug is evenly distributed throughout the suspension. The pastes make me a bit nervous because you can't really shake them up like that and I worry about "hot spots".
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutlineACDs View Post
I use ivermectin on my ACD's. 1/10 of a ml/10 lbs. Never had an issue.
Same here. I buy Ivomec injectable. As OutlineACDs said, you give 1/10 of a ml/cc per 10 pounds orally, once per month. I use one of those really small syringes to measure. A 50 ml bottle is normally under $40 and does my entire household for about 2 years or so. A huge savings over buying monthly pills and just as effective.

Note: The above measurements are for heartworm prevention. The dosage can be increased for de-worming. (It does not work for tapeworms.) I do not have measurements for de-worming though so you would have to research it.
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  #16  
Old 12-02-2012, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
With my usual heartworm meds off the market, I've had to switch to one that includes Ivermectin. Of course I'm terrified given Gusto's genetic background. The vet assures me the level is low enough that, even if he had the issue, it wouldn't affect him
As I said, the heartworm dose is supposed to be completely safe. I wasn't saying it wasn't. But the more concentrated livestock Ivermectin has a much smaller range of safety. In the grand scheme of things, I'd rather just pay for the HeartGuard than risk it. I watched Gusto with one severe neurological reaction to meds once; I'm not sure I could take a second time.
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  #17  
Old 12-02-2012, 12:10 PM
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I personally will NOT use straight ivermectin. Yes, it will prevent heartworms and many intestinal parasite. No, it will not do a thing for fleas. Ivermectin is what is in Heartgard. BUT, the dose you give with feed store ivermectin is much, MUCH larger than the dose in Heartgard. I have a collie I have not yet tested fro MDR1. It is safe to give him Heartgard because the dose is so small. So that's what I do. Based on his reaction ot anestheisa, he is very likely not even a carrier of the mutation, but I'm not going to put my dog at risk without knowing.

Even dogs that are not collies can be affected by ivermection. Mixed breeds with an unknown family history, other breeds known to have the MDR1 mutation can also be affected by ivermectin. We had a husky mix in a couple weeks ago, and based on HIS reaction to anesthesia he very likely is affected by the MDR1 mutation or at least is a carrier. You just can't predict it in mixes. He may not have had collie in him for many generations, but if one MDR1 gene continued to be passed along - there it is.

So, I guess if you really want to do this, and you have a breed ever affected by MDR1 or a mix breed, I would highly, highly recommend testing for MDR1 first.
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  #18  
Old 12-02-2012, 12:13 PM
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Oh, also, Trifexis did a collie-specific study on their product, and it was safe for collies. I'm not sure if any other brand has done this. Since Trifexis is basically Interceptor paired with Comfortis, I'd assume those two are safe as well. But as I said, I use Heartgard and n the small doses in the preventative it should be safe unless you have a VERY sensitive dog. Milbemycin (interceptor) is on the MDR1 drug list right alongside Ivermectin and Selamectin (revolution). It's not JUST ivermectin that affects MDR1 dogs. It's many others. Loperamide is another one.
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  #19  
Old 12-02-2012, 12:22 PM
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NOT ONLY HERDING DOGS/COLLIES ARE AFFECTED BY MDR1!

Here's a list of all breeds it's been found in. If you dog is one of these breeds, or a mixed breed, THERE IS A RISK your dog is at least a carrier unless BOTH parents have been tested and were homozygous negative for the mutation.

Australian Shepherd
Miniature Australian Shepherd
Border Collie
Collie
English Shepherd
German Shepherd
Long-haired Whippet (NOT A HERDING BREED!)
McNab
Old English Sheepdog
Shetland Sheepdog
Slken windhound (NOT A HERDING BREED!)

My guess is any breed that has any of these breeds in its history could also potentially carry it, any BYB dog of any breed could carry it (you can mix in dogs and generations later nobody would know), etc.
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