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  #21  
Old 11-29-2012, 11:21 PM
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Raising puppies in the home and providing them with socialization is not really an extra in my eyes. That is just... a must.
I would like them used to being handled, having their ears and paws etc played with but that is something that, if I got the puppy at 8 weeks old, would probably be easy enough for me to "catch up" on if the breeder didn't do much of it. Obedience or crate training, don't care. I can do that.

I do want an effort put in so that my puppy is off to the right start in this world. I have a preference for breeders that do lots with their puppies. If I had 2 breeders I was looking at, and they were both equal except one did more in the way of socialization, I would absolutely pick that breeder over the one that does less.
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  #22  
Old 11-30-2012, 12:04 PM
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When I was choosing my ACD breeder, I sacrificed some of the "extras" for a breeder who regularly worked her dogs on stock and did health testing. So my pup will be raised in a home, handled, will meet new people, and be exposed to cattle early on. However, I loose out on staying with litter mates longer, and a lot of different sounds/experiences/footing and such. However, I don't mind because that wasn't what I was looking for. I wanted a dog that had drive and came from parents who worked cows for a living. And that is what I'm getting.

So, sometimes you just have to sacrifice things for a certain breed. Especially one that is very split between working and conformation, especially if you want health testing.
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  #23  
Old 11-30-2012, 12:48 PM
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I think it depends a lot on everything else with the breeder, and what the new owner's experience level is. A novice person for example might have a harder time with a pup that did not get a lot of socializing, or wasn't taught anything about housebreaking. I've noticed a big difference between that, Storee was very easy to housebreak as she grew up using a 'litterbox' and so was used to having a designated potty area - it just happened to be outside when she came to us. The borders were both more of a 'we just clean up after them' type situations, so it was a lot more work to housebreak them as they seemed to both just go wherever quite a bit at first and not look for a spot. I could see that being an issue for novice pet owners for sure.

I also like the temperament testing and placing a pup based on that information over the 'pick the cute one' type breeders. Again with Storee I got the video and a run down of how she did and why she was 'the one' and it was mainly because she scored so high and also was more food motivated than the other high score pup, who was also a bit more sensitive.
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  #24  
Old 11-30-2012, 12:54 PM
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In Flatcoats it's simply not hard to find breeders who are doing -- in addition to health testing and instinct evaluations of parents, etc. -- early stim, raising in various parts of the home (usually starting in a quiet puppy room and ending in more of the busy center of the house), exposure to kids and adults and different surfaces and environments and birds and swimming (season permitting), third party evaluations (several is not uncommon). Pups normally go home around 10 weeks, though there are some who will let them go at 8-9 weeks. It's all just not that uncommon so there is really no reason at all to compromise on that sort of thing.
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  #25  
Old 11-30-2012, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emily View Post
That said, it seems like I'm destined to get dogs either through friends or from friends, so last purebred I bought definitely got all the extras and the one I'm hoping for next will too!
I think that's my new method too but we will see. You guys have a couple years to wonder.
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  #26  
Old 11-30-2012, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meepitsmeagan View Post
I wanted a dog that had drive and came from parents who worked cows for a living. And that is what I'm getting.

So, sometimes you just have to sacrifice things for a certain breed. Especially one that is very split between working and conformation, especially if you want health testing.
This is pretty much where I'm at-both breeders I'm in contact with are great and produce great working border collies that trial at the highest levels. All of their dogs live in the house, they get the puppies used to car rides and kids and all sorts of people, and all parents are health tested.

So the rest of things, for me, fall under 'icing on the cake' rather than 'must haves'. They do actually do a lot of 'extras' compared to quite a few working breeders, i.e. puppies are taken places to socialize and are raised from birth to 8 weeks old in the house. Neither will have really fancy puppy pens with tons of toys/textures/wobble boards, I doubt they'll do body handling and the one I'm leaning towards doesn't do ENS, but I feel like I'm getting the right genetics and a solid, if not sparkletacular foundation, and then I can handle the puppy raising.

I guess since I think I'll be more of a one dog person and this is 'it', I really don't want to mess up on getting a dog that lives to be 15+ years.

It's really interesting to hear everyone's thoughts on the subject, keep them coming.
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  #27  
Old 05-06-2013, 10:34 AM
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I think it's pretty subjective, depending on the breed.

There are some breeds I wouldn't consider IF they didn't have the extras. There are some that I probably wouldn't get uptight about.

With Cardigans, I think that early stimulation is a must; same for many of the herding breeds where you will probably see some reactivity in varying degrees.

For me, it would be nice if the puppies were raised around farm stock, but that's one thing I'm willing to compromise on. Food is another.
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  #28  
Old 05-06-2013, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oko View Post
This is pretty much where I'm at-both breeders I'm in contact with are great and produce great working border collies that trial at the highest levels. All of their dogs live in the house, they get the puppies used to car rides and kids and all sorts of people, and all parents are health tested.

So the rest of things, for me, fall under 'icing on the cake' rather than 'must haves'. They do actually do a lot of 'extras' compared to quite a few working breeders, i.e. puppies are taken places to socialize and are raised from birth to 8 weeks old in the house. Neither will have really fancy puppy pens with tons of toys/textures/wobble boards, I doubt they'll do body handling and the one I'm leaning towards doesn't do ENS, but I feel like I'm getting the right genetics and a solid, if not sparkletacular foundation, and then I can handle the puppy raising.

I guess since I think I'll be more of a one dog person and this is 'it', I really don't want to mess up on getting a dog that lives to be 15+ years.

It's really interesting to hear everyone's thoughts on the subject, keep them coming.
My breeder doesn't do ENS or anything like that, but the puppies experience different footings, different people, smells, ect just from the environment they are raised on. IMO, for a solid working dog, ENS and such isn't necessary. But, that is me. I know others disagree.
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  #29  
Old 05-06-2013, 11:09 AM
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For me, not doing the "extras" that I find important isn't necessarily going to make me decide the person is a poor breeder, but I will probably look elsewhere for my puppy.

There are enough good-fit-for-me breedings and breeders in the world. I can afford to be picky.

That said, my list isn't set in stone or anything. I'm going to look at the whole picture.
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  #30  
Old 05-06-2013, 11:19 AM
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Well, honestly, Auggie's breeder does a lot of the "extras" and Payton's breeder does not, and I can tell a difference. Payton also has a lot more of an edge and Auggie is more low key, but I think Payton could have benefited from "extras" even with his edge. It's something I appreciated but did not list as ZOMG SUPER IMPORTANT before, but will probably insist on in the future after seeing the difference.
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