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  #31  
Old 11-11-2012, 01:28 AM
Pops2 Pops2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Romy View Post
This. It's not a self identification based on skin color as plenty of brown people in North America aren't of African descent, and plenty of people with African ancestors are pretty light skinned. It based on the fact that their ancestors were brought here from Africa.

The reason caucasian Americans don't typically self identify as "European American" is because most have the luxury of being able to trace their ancestry to country of origin, or retain direct links to their ancestral land. I look at my family and we're still participating "members" of the same family clan that's been around for over 2,000 years.

A lot of people of African descent living in North America don't have that luxury. Their ancestors were brought here, they were forced to learn whatever language their master wanted to them speak and not allowed to practice family or cultural customs. They weren't allowed to teach them or pass them down to their descendents. If they had, you'd probably see a lot more people identifying themselves with a specific tribe or geographic area their ancestors came from. If things were reversed and Europeans were brought to Africa in slavery and their culture forcibly erased, you'd probably have people calling themselves European Africans.
when that happened they amalgamated w/ a turko-slavic nation originally from the caucusus mountains residing in egypt & called themselves mamlukes.
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  #32  
Old 11-11-2012, 02:05 AM
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I consider myself Canadian as I am a multigenerational Canadian. My oneset of grandparents are Danish but it doesnt make me Danish. Just of Danish decent. Anyone asking what I am gets told CANADIAN
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  #33  
Old 11-11-2012, 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Pops2 View Post
when that happened they amalgamated w/ a turko-slavic nation originally from the caucusus mountains residing in egypt & called themselves mamlukes.
What's interesting about that is that slav/slave mamluke/slave linguistic connection.

It's hard to imagine a modern body of people enslaved and choosing to retain the slave label even after they're freed. Makes me wish I could be a fly on the wall back then and see why they decided on it.
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  #34  
Old 11-11-2012, 07:29 AM
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It's funny because I see it the other way. If your ancestors were Italian... you ARE part Italian. It doesn't mean you have to identify with it, but you're still part Italian.

It's different from what nationality you identify yourself with. I don't know if I'll ever consider myself American, even after I have citizenship and been in the country for 20 years (I'll let you know in 10 years). But if you ask me I'll say I'm French-American because it's what I'll legally be.

So... for me there's what you are, what you consider yourself, and what you legally are
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  #35  
Old 11-11-2012, 07:44 AM
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Yeah, I have absolutely no problem with someone of Italian descent calling themselves "Italian" or "Italian-American" whether or not they were born in Italty.

Pops, to answer your question, I have no idea who Fernando Obregon from Mexico is or what his implied ethnicity is, but I think I've given enough examples:

Let's say Fernando Obregon was born, in Mexico, to Irish parents. He would be Mexican of Irish Descent.

Let's say Fernando was born in Ireland, to Irish parents, then moved to Mexico. He would be Irish, or Irish-Mexican, or Mexican of Irish Descent, depending on which he identified with.

Let's say Fernando's Irish parents moved to Spain before he was born. They then moved to Mexico, and he was born there. He would be still, Mexican, or Mexican of Irish Descent. Not, as my friend would claim, "Mexican, Irish, and Spanish."

Zoe08, I know you don't mean it, but your posts in here are honestly some of the most racist things I've ever read on Chaz. Please, take an African American studies class, or an Anthropology class, Race and Gender studies, anything like that if you get the chance.

Unfortunately, many "African-Americans" are not of African origin at all. I have a lot of friends who are Jamaican, Haitian, whatever, and are still identified as "African American", if not by themselves than by the government. And yes, it was developed as a "PC" term, almost definitely by white Americans trying to make it look like they were doing something about the race problem in this country. I don't know a single black person who was ever offended at being called "black" or "black American". It's becoming a pretty outdated term, though. I never here anyone who works someplace where race is a prominent issue or anyone college educated up here using the term African American - unless they're speaking of someone who is from Africa and identifies heavily with that culture...although in that case it's usually Nigerian-American, Ethiopian-American.
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  #36  
Old 11-11-2012, 07:47 AM
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Oh, I want to add: part of the reason "African American" came into common usage after civil rights is because "black" was not originally a term regarding skin color, it originally was a derogatory term for any immigrant in Europe. When the Irish were persecuted in England, they were considered "Black" - which is where the term "Black Irish" comes from, not, as my mother things, from Irish people with dark hair and eyes.
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  #37  
Old 11-11-2012, 08:12 AM
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The only country I've ever been asked where I come from (as in heritage ect.) is in the US. I'm not American, so this would a normal question, except most people didn't mean my country of birth, they ment where my ancestors came from to America. My American friend (her great-grandparents migrated to the US) get's asked the same question often.If she answers American, usually she'll get asked "no no, but where do your ancestors come from". Her great-grands came from Albania, so you can actually SEE her heritage.
It's always so weird for me, when people (in the US) ask me where we migrated from.

Anywho -
I'm German through and through. Though apartently I have some Dutch in me, but I don't identify myself as being a German-Dutch.
I will always be German. Even if I one day became an American citizin. My ancestors were all born here, as was I. A piece of paper doens't make me an American - I'd still BE German. Now if my children were infact born in the USA (maybe their dad is American) that would make them German-Americans, but I would still be German, even if my passport said American.
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  #38  
Old 11-11-2012, 08:41 AM
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I am an American. I was born here. On my father's side, several generations back were born here. On my mother's side, not too far back, people came from England, Ireland, and Scotland. Some went to Canada. So I'm German, Irish, English, Scottish, one person worth of Spanish and a possible Susquehanna Indian in there. lol. I consider myself both an American by nationality (where I was born and live) and all those things too. (where my ancestors came from...what ethnicity is in my genes) If someone asks me what I "am," I see nothing wrong with or inaccurate in saying that I'm an American of German, Irish, Scottish descent. I'm the type who leaves no stone unturned.
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  #39  
Old 11-11-2012, 09:09 AM
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I don't care what people identify themselves as. I have a few white friends that identify their ethnicity based on which fun holiday is closest or which tradition/jewelry they like lol
AKA: They are not even a bit irish until St.Patrick's day rolls around lol oh well. They want to feel special and wear that heart ring thing and drink on st.pattys and feel they are connected to a culture that isn't technically theirs? Lol fine.

That said, I would invite any of you to take off your judge hats before you whine about the term "African American".just for the simple things, like filling out a **** form, application etc.. There is no "Haitian" "Caribbean" "Jamaican" etc..etc...etc.. YOU GET ONE **** BOX, African American. So of course people start to just kind of accept the term. Not only do you get ONE BOX. Everyone merely assumes that's the term to describe you and you kind of accept it because frankly, there are worse things for people to call you.
I would love if people would just say "American" but that is a pipe dream. Sadly I still live in a country where everything other than white is "other"...so instead of just being American, you get a dash with something that merely kind of tips it's hat to a sad history.

Personally? I don't like the term. There are plenty of African-Americans in the united states..they left Africa, have both American cultural traditions and African ones.
"black" isn't a perfect term either but hey, it works and I prefer it. Not as much as I like Haitian and my actual ethnicity but if people are going to continue to guess or try to fit me in a box on a form, which they will, I prefer black frankly if people could say it without a negative tone but hey, one can dream.

I'm not saying African American is the perfect term.. but please take a moment to consider that using it isn't exactly a joyous thing, it's not like my friends saying they are Irish to party on St.Pattys, it's something that comes from being forced into that label and forced to check that box over and over and over again. So yes, people do learn to feel that term is a part of them, to think of what their lives could have been, to think of the actual ancestors and history behind the term and some do insist on using it that probably have fewer connections to Africa then one would expect..but how about a little understanding huh?
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  #40  
Old 11-11-2012, 09:22 AM
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I've NEVER seen just "African American" on a government form in recent years...not since I was a little kid. Most forms say "black" or "Black OR African American".
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