Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Discussions and Dog Talk Forums > Dogs - General Dog Chat


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 11-08-2012, 08:06 PM
CaliTerp07's Avatar
CaliTerp07 CaliTerp07 is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 7,626
Default

Is it really all that surprising? People color their mismarked dogs, rip hair off their dogs, hide defects, etc. Just the next level, I guess.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-08-2012, 08:41 PM
yoko's Avatar
yoko yoko is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 5,299
Default

Is there a reason a dog can't be neutered/spayed?

Is there an obligation to breed if your dog does good at shows?
__________________
Thank you Vivien and Angel Chicken for the siggy! Also I have been frosted!!! And as of 9/13/07 I know the secret handshake!


Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-08-2012, 08:45 PM
Laurelin's Avatar
Laurelin Laurelin is offline
I'm All Ears
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 28,373
Default

No, you don't have to breed if you show. Beau finished his championship with some nice wins and was neutered. Never bred.
__________________
Mia and Summer
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-08-2012, 08:52 PM
Aleron's Avatar
Aleron Aleron is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 2,270
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatStina View Post

I, personally, think it is unethical and essentially "cheating" or "false advertisement." Also, I'm sure it's against the rules, right? I can't imagine it would be allowed.
It's definitely not allowed per the rules. That isn't to say people don't use them of course but generally I would guess they are used on an otherwise quality male who had a retained testicle (more so than to continue to show a neutered male). I actually strongly suspect that is why Neuticals were created in the first place.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fran101 View Post
well that's insane!
I thought the whole point of shows was showing off the best example of the breed.. wouldn't the best of the breed not be dysplastic?!
The whole point of conformation showing is a competition of how closely the dog physically looks like the breed they are per the standard. Conformation shows have existed far longer than health testing. I remember sitting around after a show with long time breeders, judges exhibitors sharing stories of the lengths people go to to "fix" problems in otherwise show potential dogs - setting tails, removing unpigmented inner eyelids, neuticals in cryptorchids, fixing color DQs, etc, etc, etc. A newbie was like "I thought conformation shows were to evaluate the best of the best for breeding purposes". And everyone else was like "Awww...honey...that's cute"

Really though, it's a game people play with their dogs...a bit of a gambling game really. It's fun and exciting to win and definitely to win big. But winning big is not the be all end all of what makes a dog breed worthy. Plenty of show people find health testing extremely important, along with proper temperament. There's plenty of people who show and are extremely devoted to the breed they involved with in all ways. And like in any sort of competition, there's people who are more interested in the competition than the dogs and people who can and will do whatever they think they have to in order to win. It's really, really not that different from other games people play with their dogs other than the scenarios.

Conformation showing is also fairly expensive (sometimes extremely expensive) and most people begin showing their dog before any health testing would be done. If you've already invested a lot of time, energy and money...and more money into your dog's show career then the dog turns two and you find out the dog is dysplastic or the dog turns four and fails to re-CERF do you just say "forget it" and stop showing? Keep in mind showing doesn't equate to breeding.

Then there's also the consideration of breeds which are largely affected by a certain problem. If Pugs had to pass OFA to show, according to OFA's database that would rule out 66% of dogs of the breed which were submitted for hip ratings.
__________________
Nikki & the Herding Breed Variety Pack
Visit Us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Alerondogs
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-09-2012, 10:24 AM
OwnedByBCs's Avatar
OwnedByBCs OwnedByBCs is offline
Will Creep For Sheep
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 588
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron View Post
It's definitely not allowed per the rules. That isn't to say people don't use them of course but generally I would guess they are used on an otherwise quality male who had a retained testicle (more so than to continue to show a neutered male). I actually strongly suspect that is why Neuticals were created in the first place.




The whole point of conformation showing is a competition of how closely the dog physically looks like the breed they are per the standard. Conformation shows have existed far longer than health testing. I remember sitting around after a show with long time breeders, judges exhibitors sharing stories of the lengths people go to to "fix" problems in otherwise show potential dogs - setting tails, removing unpigmented inner eyelids, neuticals in cryptorchids, fixing color DQs, etc, etc, etc. A newbie was like "I thought conformation shows were to evaluate the best of the best for breeding purposes". And everyone else was like "Awww...honey...that's cute"

Really though, it's a game people play with their dogs...a bit of a gambling game really. It's fun and exciting to win and definitely to win big. But winning big is not the be all end all of what makes a dog breed worthy. Plenty of show people find health testing extremely important, along with proper temperament. There's plenty of people who show and are extremely devoted to the breed they involved with in all ways. And like in any sort of competition, there's people who are more interested in the competition than the dogs and people who can and will do whatever they think they have to in order to win. It's really, really not that different from other games people play with their dogs other than the scenarios.

Conformation showing is also fairly expensive (sometimes extremely expensive) and most people begin showing their dog before any health testing would be done. If you've already invested a lot of time, energy and money...and more money into your dog's show career then the dog turns two and you find out the dog is dysplastic or the dog turns four and fails to re-CERF do you just say "forget it" and stop showing? Keep in mind showing doesn't equate to breeding.

Then there's also the consideration of breeds which are largely affected by a certain problem. If Pugs had to pass OFA to show, according to OFA's database that would rule out 66% of dogs of the breed which were submitted for hip ratings.
Totally agree. Showing is a fun game! Not a basis for breeding.
__________________

www.brigadoonbordercollies.com
http://brigadoonbc.wordpress.com/

Do you want your dog to respect you because you demanded it, or because you truly earned it?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-09-2012, 04:13 PM
HappyPuppy's Avatar
HappyPuppy HappyPuppy is offline
Puppy Dog
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 71
Default

It's my understanding that judges 'give 'em a squeeze' anyway, so they woudn't work for showing -- but they would give some overly-masculine man a better feeling about the dog his wife/girlfriend made him neuter, tho!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-09-2012, 04:33 PM
Emily's Avatar
Emily Emily is offline
Rollin' with my bitches
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,114
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyPuppy View Post
It's my understanding that judges 'give 'em a squeeze' anyway, so they woudn't work for showing -- but they would give some overly-masculine man a better feeling about the dog his wife/girlfriend made him neuter, tho!
How is a judge going to know the difference between real testicles and neuticles? Pretty sure judge's education doesn't include "testicle texture".
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-09-2012, 04:46 PM
Aleron's Avatar
Aleron Aleron is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 2,270
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emily View Post
How is a judge going to know the difference between real testicles and neuticles? Pretty sure judge's education doesn't include "testicle texture".
LOL you are absolutely right on that.
__________________
Nikki & the Herding Breed Variety Pack
Visit Us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Alerondogs
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-09-2012, 05:43 PM
adojrts's Avatar
adojrts adojrts is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,089
Default

There have been cases of conformation show horses that were discovered to be cryptorchids and had a surgically implanted testi. One QH years ago was discovered when his broke and he had deflated on the one side at a show. This was a proven stud if memory serves me right and I would be curious as to how many crypt's he produced.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-10-2012, 04:03 AM
puppydog's Avatar
puppydog puppydog is offline
Tru evil has no pantyline
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,498
Default

When I neutered Trav (who is a CH with some fab wins) Paul wanted neuticles because "his boy still needed to feel like a man". I was like o.O
__________________


Run free my special angel. I love you and will miss you forever more. You touched everyone with your light.

Abusive ground RAW feeder since 2009

Blog---> http://bananarepublic-ct.blogspot.com/
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:17 AM.


1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site