Anti-Breeder Attitudes?

[Barbara!]

I'm just going to step out of this thread. Because to me, it is this sort of mindset that gives back yard breeders the fuel they need to make more dogs.

You breed to better the breed. And you don't know if that's what you're doing without proving the dog worthy. That means temperament titles, health titles, and either show and/or working titles. To prove the dog excels at what it was meant to do.

And just because you didn't find a breed of dog in your local shelter doesn't mean they don't exist in shelters... You can get a pet from a breeder without the breeder making a whole litter for that purpose... Holy geez. I am not saying that everyone who wants a pet should get it from a shelter.

And this:

Originally Posted by Greenmagick

IMO, its because there are ALWAYS pet quality dogs in a litter or dogs available to pet homes..dogs that have WONDERFUL health and temperament because of the work the breeders do. I see no reason one should breed for what is always going to exist in a well bred litter.

I do nothing with my dogs but just have pets. "Just pets" is not a slam or less worthy but yes, I do not think that is enough to validate breeding them.

[sassafras]

Originally Posted by Laurelin

Why does breeding for show suddenly make things a-okay? It makes no sense to me. You can breed for health, temperament, and a sound structure without breeding for show.

Or breeding for sport, or any other type of work is ok? Companionship IS a job just like any other job. There are specific traits, both behavioral and physical, that make good companion dogs.

No, you cannot find 'dogs of all shapes and sizes and colors' in shelters. You just can't. I never saw a single papillon or sheltie enter the shelter I worked at. Not a single one. Small dogs? You're going on a waiting list. That's not even touching on finding dogs of the temperament you want, which is even more important.

Comrade, you'll take your assigned puppy and you'll learn to love him!

[Saeleofu]

Shelters are full of pets.

With unknown histories.

Honestly, I'm a bit iffy on if my next strictly PET (who I'll inevitably at least do CGC and rally with) will be a rescue or not. Gavroche has loads of problems, some of which may or may not be genetic. He's also reactive. Yeah, some of his problems go with the breed in general, but if you get a good dog from a good breeder with health testing and stuff, you lessen the chances of having a money pit dog. It can still happen, sure! But again, stacking the deck.

I don't see anything wrong with wanting a HEALTHY and temperamentally stable pet. If all pets were healthy and stable, then there would be a whole lot less pets in shelters.

[Laurelin]

To me there is this focus on the ebil 'BYB'. We have this need to make all these arbitrary rules that have nothing to do with... anything.

- Can't breed a mix. Breed a mutt= BYB/irresponsible.
- Can't breed for pets. BYB
- Can't breed more than 1-2 litters a year. BYB
- Can't advertise. BYB
- Must show or you're a BYB. or the opposite- If you show you're a bad breeder.
- Oh man you have kennels... BYB
- No waiting list? BYB
-Untitled sire or dam? BYB

I could keep going but you get it. BYB is the most useless term.

Why not focus on the important things like... Breeding good dogs, being honest about your breeding program and your goals, and standing behind your puppies for their entire lives?

For the record, my dogs are show bred and I do agility with them so they're not 'just pets', whatever that means. I know what *I* want in a breeder. I am very specific, especially for Nextdog. If my plans go right, Nextdog is going to be a very busy busy dog. That doesn't mean one size fits all when it comes to breeders and who is being 'responsible'.

[Barbara!]

Originally Posted by Saeleofu

I don't see anything wrong with wanting a HEALTHY and temperamentally stable pet. If all pets were healthy and stable, then there would be a whole lot less pets in shelters.

And neither do I... But that seems to be getting lost in translation here. I don't see anything wrong with getting a pet from a breeder. But I do see something wrong with a breeder breeding a whole litter for something that comes out in show prospective litters anyways.

[sassafras]

Originally Posted by Barbara!

And neither do I... But that seems to be getting lost in translation here. I don't see anything wrong with getting a pet from a breeder. But I do see something wrong with a breeder breeding a whole litter for something that comes out in show prospective litters anyways.

There is a fundamental disagreement here on the value and need for purposefully bed companion dogs. Not show quality does not automatically equal good companions simply because they are called pet quality. Nor is every dog suited to be "just" a companion. If they were, why couldn't anyone have any breed? Since you can walk into a shelter full of pets and any dog is suitable, why can't you just open a book of breeds and any breed is suitable?

I'm with Laurelin. The whole concept of what makes a BYB is wooly at best. Also, the definition of a companion dog is not simply, "a dog who lives with a person".

[Laurelin]

Imo BYB = 'I don't agree with you'

[Greenmagick]

Who judges the companionability? That is something that is SO subjective, yeah, not a way to breed just for that....it looks different for every person. I do feel very strongly that there needs to be impartial judging and something more than just a good companion to make a dog breeding material.

I LOVE my pet dogs with all my heart and wouldnt exchange them for the world but nope, not willing to be ok with someone who breeds their pets because they are good companions or they love them.

I did not want a working or a show dog. I still went to a reputable breeder and got a WONDERFUL companion dog. They are not in short supply. Health tested, temperament tested, early puppy socialization etc. all done.

[Southpaw]

It's not as easy as "all litters have pet quality dogs in them." Some breeders DON'T sell to pet homes. If we are only limited to sport/show/working breeders then I think it becomes more difficult for "pet people" to get a breeder puppy.

Juno is from a "pet breeder." Her dogs get their CGC. Her dogs do therapy work. Her dogs dabble in agility and obedience. Some of them do conformation. They are health tested. For me, that's good enough. Aesthetics comes into play too. I do NOT like the look of most conformation bred boxers. And I also don't like the looks of poorly bred boxers. I like a sort of in-between I guess, and this breeder's dogs were it for me.
And thus far she is way healthier than any other boxer I've met.

[Greenmagick]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

Juno is from a "pet breeder." Her dogs get their CGC. Her dogs do therapy work. Her dogs dabble in agility and obedience.

That is part of what I defined in my definition of having a job. Obedience, therapy, agility, etc all count. They are out there working with other people, being tested in above average (for your typical pet) situations, etc. I would not consider that a pet breeder.