Sibes and other northern breeds

[Romy]

Originally Posted by monkeys23

Please dear god in heaven do NOT get an Akita. They would not be a good fit for you. Please trust me.

I really like them, but yeah.... hello DA, guarding capabilities (they were orginally created for hunting and dog fighting in Japan ), same Spitz aloofness, and generally honey badger don't care what you want.
My old neighbors had a 4 dog team of huskies and Akitas. I dogsat their new puppy. Awesome dogs, but they would NOT be a good fit for what you describe wanting.

Holy crap yes! My brother has an akita who is the sweetest most awesome thing in the world. And he's 125 lbs at an athletic weight.

To be honest, you can find over and undersized dogs in any breed. The standard for GSDs goes up to 75-ish lbs, but you can easily find bitches over 100 if you look in all the right (wrong) places. Even in well bred litters there are size variations outside the standard.

Personally, I'd find the breed that fits you well based on their temperament and natural ability for what you want to do and look for an individual dog whose size conforms more to what you're looking for.

[Lyzelle]

I wouldn't touch Akita's in this country with a 50ft pole. No way in heeeellllll. American Akita is a completely different ballgame than the traditional Akita.

[Aleron]

The idea of a BBS/white GSD is interesting. However, IME many wGSD tend to be rather large. Even the show bred ones. And considering most of the well bred wGSD are from pedigrees that crossed pet to American show lines, if the Amline GSds don't appeal to you a wGSD probably won't either. All that said my Amline GSD would have meet your criteria just fine I think. Very moderate (the people at the SchH club asked me if I was sure she wasn't an Amline/working line cross LOL) good temperament for playing around in stuff but good, fairly easy pet dog too.

If you want a GSD who is low to moderate drive, low in guarding tendencies and dog tolerant you can find them. It isn't ideal for the breed but they certainly exist Actually probably you could find such a dog through a reputable GSD rescue. The hard thing with GSDs is that much of their "aggression" comes with maturity, so there is no way of knowing if your puppy will grow into a DA or guardy adult regardless of lines. If DA, guardy nature or reactivity bother you, I'm not sure a GSD id really for you.

Originally Posted by frostfell

Hmmm aye. And sammys are the same things, and they bark a ton Im told. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...... Akita? What does anyone know about the Akita?

Sammys are really, really nice dogs IME - happy, friendly and generally uncomplicated. More biddable than a Sibe or Malamute but not so biddable as a herder. They do tend to be barky and coat care is a consideration, unless you plan to keep them clipped short. Lapphunds would be another breed to consider.







Again there is the coat consideration but from everything I hear Lapphunds are super nice dogs - friendly, biddable, FLUFFY! but good pets and also uncomplicated dogs.

If the DA, HA, reactivity issues worry you about GSDs, I wouldn't suggest an Akita at all. They are as much or more so prone to those traits and not nearly as biddable as a GSD.

[frostfell]

Originally Posted by monkeys23

honey badger don't care what you want.

You owe me a new keyboard. I just spat coffee all over mine

Originally Posted by monkeys23

How about a nice showline Golden Retriever?

definitely no

Originally Posted by Lyzelle

I wouldn't touch Akita's in this country with a 50ft pole. No way in heeeellllll. American Akita is a completely different ballgame than the traditional Akita.

How are they different? iv heard that Japanese akitas are more intensely DA/HA/Guard than am akitas which are, like all show lines, watered down.

[Lyzelle]

Originally Posted by frostfell

How are they different? iv heard that Japanese akitas are more intensely DA/HA/Guard than am akitas which are, like all show lines, watered down.

It's like getting a bully breed from a good breeder vs. bad breeder. Same qualities, less brainpower to use them properly.

Both varieties of Akita are both going to be gamey, they are both going to be intense dogs with DA, SSDA, and resource guarding(and yes, some American lines can be HA). They are both going to be more aloof, but less so than Sibe/Mals. Both have history as war dogs. But the American lines are far more scatterbred, and it leads to some neurotic issues, less dependable temperaments. Some American lines might be watered down, but you are increasing risk of a dog that wasn't necessarily bred for GOOD temperament - just watered down. I hear so many people say things like, "Oh, that's just how Akitas ARE". No, they aren't. They are intense dogs, but they aren't supposed to be scrambled eggs.

Just like your bully breeds. Yes, they are intense dogs. But they aren't supposed to be HA, unpredictable time bombs.

Disclaimer: Not ALL American Akitas are like that. But, I don't have much experience meeting those that weren't.

[frostfell]

Thats a good analogy thank you

[Pops2]

Originally Posted by monkeys23

Someone's buckskin horse got killed here like five or six years ago. And another person's sorrel horse got shot because some asshat from Boise got overexcited. Sigh, its fun when city people come out to our mountains. The rednecks are actually a lot less trigger happy than the yuppies who think they are going to come shoot a deer/elk/whatever.

interestingly enough states that have high minimum hunting/gun handling ages like NY, MA and so on tend to have high rates of accidental shootings during hunting season. obviously not 100% true of every single year but true much more often than not.

[Romy]

Originally Posted by Lyzelle

It's like getting a bully breed from a good breeder vs. bad breeder. Same qualities, less brainpower to use them properly.

Both varieties of Akita are both going to be gamey, they are both going to be intense dogs with DA, SSDA, and resource guarding(and yes, some American lines can be HA). They are both going to be more aloof, but less so than Sibe/Mals. Both have history as war dogs. But the American lines are far more scatterbred, and it leads to some neurotic issues, less dependable temperaments. Some American lines might be watered down, but you are increasing risk of a dog that wasn't necessarily bred for GOOD temperament - just watered down. I hear so many people say things like, "Oh, that's just how Akitas ARE". No, they aren't. They are intense dogs, but they aren't supposed to be scrambled eggs.

Just like your bully breeds. Yes, they are intense dogs. But they aren't supposed to be HA, unpredictable time bombs.

Disclaimer: Not ALL American Akitas are like that. But, I don't have much experience meeting those that weren't.

The am lines might be "softer", but that's relative. An am line akita is still likely to be much more HA and DA than a working line GSD. Even the show version are serious dogs. And no, they don't care. lol. Ranger respects my brother and (usually) does what is asked of him.

Am line akitas are also much more mastiff-like. They're very very large and heavy boned. Ranger (my bro's akita) has a head with the circumference of a soccer ball. That's his actual skull bones, not fluff. He's from show lines, not a BYB dog. He's just.. massive.

I like amline dogs that I've met. All of them were stable, but they were all from good breeders. They are the opposite of what Frostfell is describing in a dog though.

If you're not wanting a dog that is serious about protecting you and your house, that very likely will want to eat your other dogs when it's grown, that you probably won't be able to ever leave in a boarding kennel or rent with, that won't allow a house sitter/dog sitter come in to take care of it, and that you'll probably have to groom yourself unless you socialize the crap out of it with the people who will be grooming it some day, that will probably weight over 100 lbs. when mature, then don't get an akita.

Also, because of their heavy bone and extra size, they're prone to orthopedic problems and don't do as well in competitive sports. Ranger is a long coat and he get overheated really easily unless it's snowing or freezing cold out. Then he just wants to lay there and not do anything.

[Psyfalcon]

Originally Posted by Pops2

interestingly enough states that have high minimum hunting/gun handling ages like NY, MA and so on tend to have high rates of accidental shootings during hunting season. obviously not 100% true of every single year but true much more often than not.

But those state also have a much higher density of hunters.

Sure, hunters per 100k are lower, but you have so many people packed into those states that you end up with a sizable number of hunters. Then you have everyone packed into smaller wildlife areas, especially in places like NJ, MA, and RI.

Stocked pheasant in NJ? Combat hunting on the weekends. One year they let everyone start a half hour before sunrise. Hunters had it petitioned to go back to sunrise. No one was willing to leave the parking lot with that many people around in the dark.

[Laurelin]

Lapphund and samoyed were my thoughts. I think you might have to compromise on some aspect at least a little. I know I am looking at a next dog and any way I go with it, I will have to compromise because even within the type I like, there's not a perfect fit. Too much coat, too big, too small, too much energy, not enough energy, docked tail, etc. When you get that specific you are looking at lines more than breeds imo.