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  #31  
Old 10-16-2012, 11:50 AM
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It's hard to argue logic with someone incapable of seeing any version of any story than the one they have already cemented in their mind.
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  #32  
Old 10-16-2012, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Barbara! View Post
Oh look, situations that have nothing to do with the OP and are unrelated that I knew would come up because you can't argue logic. Okay!

None of the situations are related.

We are human, we get upset. If we spank our dog out of a flourish of anger, but realize it is wrong, then I see no issue as long as we strive to be better next time. I apologize not everyone can have self-control like you Yoko... I guess we should all try to be just like you!

*I* do not believe she starved that puppy. Once again, unrelated. If I thought she had, then I would not have defended her.

This man consciously stabbed a dog twenty three times. Twenty three times. He thought about it, and did it. He was aware of what he was doing and had time to think about it (unlike someone who may strike their dog on impulse). To me, that is unacceptable and sick.

Again, logic.
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Originally Posted by release the hounds View Post
It's hard to argue logic with someone incapable of seeing any version of any story than the one they have already cemented in their mind.
If be just like me you mean knowing when to take a step back and not physically strike out then by all means strive for that your dogs will thank you.

And if you can't see the difference between defense and outright abuse then I don't think I am the one with the logic problem.
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  #33  
Old 10-16-2012, 12:16 PM
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I'd say twenty three stabs is certainly not "defense". Maybe it was at first, but then it turned into a man not having any control over himself.
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  #34  
Old 10-16-2012, 12:17 PM
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how can any of us know how many stabs are needed?

Do people here have some vast experience with panicked people stabbing bulldogs in mid attack?

How many stabs does it take to stop a large determined dog? What did these wounds look like? Was it 23 times to the heart? Was it 23 punctures, with only a couple actually causing fatality? Did the bulldog release after one stab and the guy just went apeshit on it?

I do know that American bulldogs are bred for gameness, they are bred as catchdogs, they are bred to keep going even when they are badly hurt.

Unless you have experience with stabbing things to death I'm not sure how you can be so sure that this wasn't necessary (or at least, appeared necessary to a sane but panicky person). And if it was necessary to save the little dog, and you still think the man should be jailed... THAT is really disturbing.
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  #35  
Old 10-16-2012, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xandra View Post
how can any of us know how many stabs are needed?

Do people here have some vast experience with panicked people stabbing bulldogs in mid attack?

How many stabs does it take to stop a large determined dog? What did these wounds look like? Was it 23 times to the heart? Was it 23 punctures, with only a couple actually causing fatality? Did the bulldog release after one stab and the guy just went apeshit on it?

I do know that American bulldogs are bred for gameness, they are bred as catchdogs, they are bred to keep going even when they are badly hurt.

Unless you have experience with stabbing things to death I'm not sure how you can be so sure that this wasn't necessary (or at least, appeared necessary to a sane but panicky person). And if it was necessary to save the little dog, and you still think the man should be jailed... THAT is really disturbing.
Very well said. In panic mode, most ordinary people are not thinking rationally at all, they're just in lizard brain mode. I think it's sad the dog was killed, but I don't think the guy belongs in jail, either.
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  #36  
Old 10-16-2012, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbara! View Post
I'm sorry, but there absolutely is no excuse for stabbing a dog TWENTY THREE times. Count to twenty three in your head. Now imagine stabbing something that many times. That takes intent. You don't "accidentally" go overboard with stabbing a dog. In all likelihood, the dog was already detached from his dog, immobile, and bleeding to death while he was still continuing to stab him.
If he was stabbing double handed, it was more like twelve.

Also, you're making some gigantic assumptions about the logistics of what happened for someone who wasn't there, that is only getting their information from an article written by someone else who wasn't there. What if stab #23 is the stab where it finally released the other dog from its jaws?
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  #37  
Old 10-16-2012, 01:23 PM
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To me, the number of times is irrelevant. If the dog was still attacking the whole time then the man was fighting in self defense (or rather, defense of his dog). If the dog backed off and was trying get away at some point and the guy chased after him and continued the attack, then the guy went overboard and that opens another series of hard questions.

That said, whether the guy with the knives was right or wrong does not in any way diminish the fault of the attacking dog's owner who, as I understand it, was letting a known DA dog run about unsupervised and loose, endangering her dog and every other dog in the vicinity. People like that are a waste of perfectly good gravity.
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  #38  
Old 10-16-2012, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Shai View Post
That said, whether the guy with the knives was right or wrong does not in any way diminish the fault of the attacking dog's owner who, as I understand it, was letting a known DA dog run about unsupervised and loose, endangering her dog and every other dog in the vicinity. People like that are a waste of perfectly good gravity.
Yeah. I really can't comprehend how someone can say they had so much love for their dog, but then repeatedly put them in so much danger. I understand that crap happens and even the most vigilant owners can have a broken collar or door darting incident, but that's not what happened here.

The picture of her with her dog is heartbreaking, but what's even more heartbreaking is the fact that her dog would be alive if she loved him enough to put him on a leash. She'd be making that face if he'd been run over by a car too. Or if the stabby guy hadn't been able to save his dog, we'd see a picture of him making that face over a little dead terrier that was killed by her dog and her dog would be taken and probably destroyed anyway.

Either way, it boils down to the fact that none of this would have happened if people took basic responsibility for their animals.
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  #39  
Old 10-16-2012, 02:03 PM
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I hate to say this about an animal because i do love animals, but being out in the country & having lots of coyotes & stray/feral dogs out here, if this happened to me i wouldnt be grabbing a knife on my way out the door... i would be grabbing my rifle & some extra shells.

that being said, i would try some nonlethal means of distraction first before i go popping off rounds at a living creature, being as i only have one small ddog & three larger dogs, but if the dog was large dog & had ahold of my small dog you'd bet i would fore first & ask questions later.
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  #40  
Old 10-16-2012, 02:04 PM
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If that dog was in attack mod then wouldn't it stand to reason that the adrenalin(sp?) coarsing through it's system would cause it to not feel pain in any normal type of manner? Hence why it would take a lot to stop it. That is not a small dog. Plus how do we know(since no details are given) that many of the hits went to the hilt. 23 could just be the number of cuts and some could be very superficial which would then be non-effective. This man was defending his dog who was being mauled. There is not enough details in the article to determine how many full stabs there was. He might have only got in a couple of successful ones that would cause the dog to slow down and stop. If the others were superficial the dog would react just like it would in a fight with another dog and just increase in furocity(sp?). That is my take on it. As far as I am concerned the woman is 100% at fault
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