Sibes and other northern breeds

[Lyzelle]

Anteater and pony don't put your dogs in danger of being taken away and euth'd, Romy. There's a major responsibility with what that breeder is doing and considering how many dogs of hers that have ended up with BYB'ers who ARE breeding in wolf...I personally don't think she has that amount of responsibility in her.

Wolves and hybrids are banned in most states. Calling a Sibe a wolf is dangerous. Creating dogs from Sibes and GSDs to be specifically called "wolves but really not" isn't something I'm terribly fond of.

Everyone loves the look until it's their dog on the cutting board.

[Equinox]

Originally Posted by frostfell

Offensive or not, its MY BLOODY OPINION. I specifically said " I find _____ ugly" and "_____ is acceptable to me". And my opinion is not uneducated, unless of course talking to GSD owners and breeders and doing research for the last year and a half counts as "uneducated" -eye roll- I refuse to own a dog that I find hideous, regardless of whether someone else likes that look or not. Im not them. Im not you. So you think the show line dogs can be beautiful, fine, wonderful, good for you. I dont share that opinion. And I wont apologize for it. Having preferences isnt hurting anything

And those same GSD owners, two of which know me extremely well and know the kind of dog Im looking for, have told ME that working line/ddr shepherds are going to be TOO MUCH DOG FOR ME. I trust their judgement, hence, being stuck in bind as far as GSD goes. I hate the show line look, the working line temperament hates me.

So unless theres a magical in-between solution to that, Im afraid I just cannot seriously consider the GSD for myself.

I'm very glad to hear that. At least you are mature enough in that aspect, to have come to such a conclusion. I agree that a working bred German Shepherd will probably be too much for you.

Best of luck in your search! Hope you find the dog you are looking for, regardless of whether or not you fall in love with the breed.

Originally Posted by monkeys23

Indeed. Even though she is half husky Lily is deadly serious about my safety. In bitework she'll play the game with the equipment, but if she could get in a dirty bite she wouldn't hesitate. She's only ever alerted on ONE person and that person is now in federal prison. She's very social and goes everywhere with me, but she is half GSD and will do her job if she has to.
Scout isn't as vigilant, but she is so much fun to do bitework with. We have a lot of fun with that. And its done more than anything else to mentally give her a "job" and good outlet for her drives, which helps her relax and enjoy life. Again very social girl and goes everywhere with me. Glad you caught this Equinox, I'd missed it!

Originally Posted by monkeys23

Yes this is a biggie! My dog Scout had all kinds of undesirable behaviors in her previous home, despite that home being more ideal on paper than I was at that time, and whattaya know those magically went away when I took her. If the dog is smarter than the people who own it (and this breed IS a thinking dog with lots of drive that needs a "job" of some sort) and has no outlet for its natural drive, all sorts of problem behaviors can surface in the hands of an owner not suited to or experienced with the breed. Ditto for Sibes/Mals too actually.

Yes, exactly - I don't want a dog with high suspicion because my dog is my day to day companion first and foremost, and that means I take him everywhere I can with me. Trent is very stable, breezes through large crowds when I take him to sidewalk sales, and while he doesn't look forward to meeting new people, he's been known to fall in love with strangers once or twice He allows people to walk through our door if someone is there to greet them, and even then if guests walk in unannounced, he'll alert bark at most. A frightening display, but with no meaning behind the action. He hardly bats an eye at people walking past our house or our car, if we're in a parking lot.

But, if he senses any genuine nervousness or fear from me, he jumps into action (and I admit to scaring easily). And not as a human or fear reactive dog would. Luckily, it's always been false alarms and a pat on the side or a "it's okay, Trent" calms him down almost immediately. He's very conscious of me even when he is acting on a perceived threat, and has displayed excellent discernment in the past.

It helps that he is 3 1/2 now and finally growing that brain of his In dog less self aware or mentally balanced (whether due to age or maturity), or in a dog with lower thresholds and stronger suspicion or a sharper temperament, this can become something that is difficult to manage... especially if handled by the wrong person. Some traits inherent to the breed can be misinterpreted and then mishandled, or simply not recognized or dealt with at all.

Even in a lower drive, higher threshold, "pet quality" dog like Trent, it took a while for me to really know my dog and what I had (and by that, I mean a great dog and a poor personal understanding of the type I owned ). As a first time dog owner, I managed well, in my opinion, and without much effort to be honest. Just a basic understanding and the realization that my expectations weren't very informed. So if someone wanted a dog that would not display aggression, then I'd definitely recommend against German Shepherds, among many other breeds.

Originally Posted by monkeys23

Thanks! Thats not a bad idea, i think you should put up some examples!

I have a few pictures I keep around to use as examples, just for these types of discussions

I'll go through them and post soon.

Originally Posted by monkeys23

Sucks that stuff pops up sometimes even with health testing. I think I've seen pics of him... I lurk there, lol. I've really enjoyed all her dogs that I've met. They certainly aren't ornamental lol... pretty zesty and fun.

Oh absolutely, and I don't mean to say or imply that it's the breeder's fault at all. I can see how it may have come off that way to anyone else, so just to let everyone know, I don't fault the breeder the least! I remember the Shepherd's owner posting a picture of the dog's littermate and he was just fine. And, as I said, the dog's temperament sounds just stellar.

She recently updated on a smaller GSD forum I'm a member of, with a quick picture and post.

Originally Posted by monkeys23

Also I'd like to add that my 75% GSD dog is okay if something comes up and we don't get a good run in on top of regular walks and training, but the 50/50 Sibe/GSD one starts chasing her tail and having spastic husky zoomies around the house if she doesn't get her required mileage. The huskies, they must has the running.

Oh geez, I could go two weeks without training or exercising Trent and he'd still just nap his way through the day. He's so calm around the house he's flat out boring. I wish he'd do more! I love practicing indoor pictures, but all of them are just of him looking at me (points to signature).

Originally Posted by monkeys23

Lily also in a vain attempt to keep working at our private lesson kept jumping on top of the kennel instead of going into it. It was hilarious, well to me anyway. I trade off between each of them in our lessons, so they both get worked. Same day Scout had a rapid fire Shepherd barking fit in the kennel because she wanted to get out and work, but it was currently Lily's turn. Again it cracked me up because I like my girls' drive to do stuff, but if that would annoy you stay away from GSD's.

A purebred Sibe or Mal would probably go "Oh look at the kitty!" and pay no attention. Or "SQUIRREL!!!!"

Lily and Scout sound like such a fun pair to be around! There should be some sort of PNW meet up - I've been wanting to meet katielou (I can't remember if she's in Seattle or an hour away from Seattle) and steal Abe. I'll nab your pair while I'm at it.

Always love hearing your thoughts, monkeys!

[Equinox]

Originally Posted by Romy

http://www.berger-blanc-international.com/

from the top of page 6 of the standard PDF download




So fluffay!


One of our members imported a berger blanc suisse puppy and has an adult white GSD that is her working SD. Maybe if she sees this she'll give some input.

White Shepherds/BBS's are a good recommendation, actually. I'm not sure if it is just my experience, but I've known more White Shepherds and white German Shepherds to carry the long coat gene in general (compared to working lines and American show lines).

I've spoken with someone who owns two White Shepherds from Braehead and will soon have a third, but I'm not sure if their conformation is to your liking. They are incredibly versatile and excel in a variety of performance sports.

http://braeheadwhiteshepherds.com/about.html

[Romy]

Originally Posted by Lyzelle

Anteater and pony don't put your dogs in danger of being taken away and euth'd, Romy. There's a major responsibility with what that breeder is doing and considering how many dogs of hers that have ended up with BYB'ers who ARE breeding in wolf...I personally don't think she has that amount of responsibility in her.

Wolves and hybrids are banned in most states. Calling a Sibe a wolf is dangerous. Creating dogs from Sibes and GSDs to be specifically called "wolves but really not" isn't something I'm terribly fond of.

Everyone loves the look until it's their dog on the cutting board.

This thing with random sibe/mal/GSD mixes and wolf hybrids is there is no registry their ancestry is documented through if a question of parentage comes up.

The same issue happens in ANY place where there's BSL, not just hybrid restrictions. If this lady's lab hadn't been registered he'd be dead. And labs aren't normally a breed that people think of as being in danger of getting seized because they resembled banned animals.

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/articles...dormistake.htm

With a new breed that has a studbook and documented domestic foundation stock, you can show registration papers and prove your dog has no wolf ancestry. Even though they look more wolfy, I'd say they're safer from BSL than undocumented northern/GSD mixes.

[monkeys23]

Originally Posted by frostfell

I am staying with the bullies. Like I said, Im not "switching breeds". I just want ONE fluffy fun sport thing I can do stuff with, something for me, not for breeding, not for the breeds future, but for me.

Both my dogs' previous owners' got them because they wanted a pretty fluffy. Lily's previous owner dumped her on the street to starve when he was sick of her destroying his house because she was given zero outlet physically or mentally. She will always have a compulsive eating disorder from her time on the street. She's perfect for me and an awesome dog, but I am under no illusions. If I had not snapped her up her life would not have been so secure and enjoyable. She probably would have ended up back in the shelter system, rescue, or gotten hit on the road.

You think that statement is extreme? Well let me tell you how I ended up with my second dog.
Long story shot, my best friend's mother did not heed my MULTIPLE warnings about what goes into making Lily such a good doggie citizen. She just wanted an awesome dog like Lily, so just go out and get one right? Yeah these kind of dogs aren't good couch ornaments AT ALL.

Thats not even where poor Scout's story starts. Her first owner got her because of how she looks, cute and fuzzy right? She was an f'ing adorable puppy. Well sufice to say her first adopter was in no way prepared for the awesome landsharkiness of a GSD puppy. Tearing apart crates is a pretty typical drivey Shepherd thing, especially for pups (hence the landshark handle ), buuut this pet lady assumed she had SA and went about creating SA in her by assuming that. Great that is fun. So when she had some medical problems and could no longer afford expensive doggie daycare (that gave Scout atrocious dog/dog manners that have vastly improved since I've had her) or other basic care for her and the other GSD she couldn't handle that she bought to keep Scout company she posted on fb that she needed to give them away to a good home. So when I turned it down because neither were really what I was looking for OF COURSE my friend's mother jumped on that.

It actually was a lot less of a train wreck than I was expecting, but it still wasn't great for poor Scout and obviously I ended up with her after all was said and done. Here are the highlights: She has a scar on her nose from the RR beating up on her because they don't supervise their dogs, she's terrified of kids because the unsupervised toddler chewed on her (she actually is totally comfy with even those particular kids now that she's in a stable, breed experienced home), she's missing a molar because they left her unsupervised in the fenced backyard and she dug out to chase the neighbor's rodeo horses... gawd she's lucky she isn't dead! She killed several semi-feral cats. She got bored and got into acrylic paint, so I had to cut a bunch of hardened paint out of her fur when I took her. And I think I'll stop there.

Scout would be a lot more normal if she hadn't had to live with a couple different pet owners who wanted a pretty fluffy haired dog.

I'm sorry wanting a dog because fluffy hair is cute is not a great reason for getting a fluffy dog. Its just not.

You say you want to do sports? Well what kind of sports? What sports do you already do with your dogs? It sounds like you want to very lightly dabble to be honest and really, the more work you can give these dogs the happier they'll be.

I don't get a choice. I have to go out in the blizzard or sleet or whatever and give my dogs their daily exercise. Its part of owning the working mix dogs I chose to own. But thats a choice I made, I love having them, don't mind doing any of it, and I look forward to someday having a third high drive pointy dog. Its not the right time yet, but it will be someday.

I've been around a lot of bully breeds and they are nowhere near as high maintenance as the fluffies are. The fluffies have to have a job of some sort or they will find ways to entertain themselves that you won't like. Hell ask Adrianne, she lives with pit bulls and malinois lol.

I guess people are going to do what they are going to do, but its irresponsible to not heed multiple warnings from various people via various media/in person/etc. that you probably won't mesh well living with a certain breed when what you describe wanting (aside from the hair and pointy ears) better matches a totally different breed type and ownership style.

I just really do not want any other poor dogs having to deal with what my dogs have had to in the past. They don't deserve being passed around because people are selfish and look at dogs as objects for their looks.

[monkeys23]

Originally Posted by Romy

Meh, people shout pony and anteater at mine.

That is awesome.

[monkeys23]

Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel

To each their own, honestly, but I see a desire for it and I understand it. I love the look but I have no desire for the temperament commonly associated with such breeds.

Eh maybe I'm jsut more paranoid 'cause I'm from ID lol. Yay gun happy rednecks. Everyone in the backwoods has BC's or generic cattle dogs. Or hounds or labs. Weiner dogs are popular too.

Not many shepherdy things and the sled dog people you never see out and about because their dogs are chained out on their property unless they are mushing. Man if I'd known growing up that my farrier raised and mushed Alaskan huskies and Sepalla siberians...

[monkeys23]

Originally Posted by Lyzelle

Anteater and pony don't put your dogs in danger of being taken away and euth'd, Romy. There's a major responsibility with what that breeder is doing and considering how many dogs of hers that have ended up with BYB'ers who ARE breeding in wolf...I personally don't think she has that amount of responsibility in her.

Wolves and hybrids are banned in most states. Calling a Sibe a wolf is dangerous. Creating dogs from Sibes and GSDs to be specifically called "wolves but really not" isn't something I'm terribly fond of.

Everyone loves the look until it's their dog on the cutting board.

Indeed. Or just flat out shot even if you are on your own property. I honestly worry even though they wear orange when I see people slow down on the road when we are hiking in the pasture. Pretty normal to screech over the side and whip out the gun to shoot a coyote here.

[frostfell]

We are having this discussion because I refuse to get and discard dog after dog finding what works. I want to figure it out beforehand, get a dog, and have it have been the right choice. If I wasnt set on that, I would be another Jairi and I wouldnt be bitching about having to reject the GSD and Akita because of unsuitabilities. Iv got half a dozen people in person and online telling me a watered down Sibe would do perfectly, and half a dozen people telling me that NO Sibe, on ANY part of the spectrum, will suit me. I just dont know. This is why Im HERE, asking stupid questions.

[AdrianneIsabel]

Malinois look like coyotes on steroids, they would be dangerous in ID. -_-