Jumping style

[elegy]

Originally Posted by Dekka

My suggestion would be to do both at the same time. So the dog can learn there are different jumping styles for different jobs.

Steve started training in agility well before he started training in flyball, and he's done both for most of the time.

I think he just tries to do everything in life as quickly as possible, so that naturally leads to a flatter jump. Higher jumps make him pay more attention and think about what he's doing a bit more, which is I think why he takes fewer bars.

[Dekka]

And that is also a consideration. Some dogs jump better, bio mechanically at a higher jump so actually are safer jumping higher than lower. Dekka jumps like a bull in a china shop. She can get away with it as she jumps 10 inches. She just flings herself at the jump. If I jump her higher she slows down, rounds better and actually lands with less impact.

For those who feel that these jumps heights are unfair should be very glad they don't live in the UK.. wow Psyfalcon those jump heights are HIGH. And I do find their reasoning interesting.

[MafiaPrincess]

That article is interesting, this in particular

The 30***8221; height division was maintained firstly due to the fact that it is the essence of British Agility. Although, more importantly, 30***8221; was kept because research as well as our own observation has shown that jumping higher is not only safer, but influences a better jump style and form.

Unfortunately, not much effort has been put into the proper research on agility dogs and jumping. In addition, some of the research done is not as scientific as would be liked.One piece of research coming from the Netherlands studied how jump height affects injuries in dogs. It concluded that speed, not height, is more likely to cause injury. It has also been concluded that the lower a dog jumps, the faster the dog will go. The faster the dog travels, the more impact is caused when turning and hitting the other equipment. As said though, it***8217;s been suggested that this is not as scientific as it could have been.

[Flyinsbt]

Originally Posted by BostonBanker

I actually ran Meg in Performance because of the A-frame height rather than the jump heights. She's a fairly blocky dog with a big front end, and an old elbow injury.

That's reasonable enough. But I'll say that there is a difference between choosing to run a dog who fits into the middle of the cutoff in Performance, and running a dog at the cutoff in Performance.

I'm not knocking USDAA Performance, or saying I wouldn't use it if I had a dog who it seemed appropriate for. I moved my old gal, Tully, into Performance when she reached Masters level, she was just under 16", so that was 12". She wasn't super competitive due to training, she wasn't fast (did get a SuperQ or 2 before retiring, she was an awesome Snooker dog. I could pull her off of anything.), but she was fun to play with, and I let her just play on the easier jumps there at the end of her career. 12" was a lot easier to run her at, I didn't have to worry about bars at that height, and could concentrate on motivating my dog to move. (here she is finishing her MACH, so you can see what I mean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvfMcVLhas8 ) She kept plenty of 16" bars up, but knocked her fair share, too. I could turn her a lot tighter when I ran her at 12".

If my Pirate (16" dog I mentioned) were no more competitive than his grandma there, I would be happy to run him in 16" Performance. But he's not, he's a dog who has a chance to be seriously competitive when up against dogs where the mismatch isn't too great. I wouldn't be competing if I didn't like winning. I do. And I have a dog who can win, so I'm going to run him against competition where the match is more fair for him.

[Shai]

Originally Posted by Dekka

Flyinbt said that "AKC in particular is designed to be possible for the widest possible range of body styles. It isn't supposed to be just for BCs and other light bodied dogs that can easily and safely jump over their heads.. " Implying that other venues aren't for all dogs. Which isn't true as I see a very wide range of dogs competing, we have seen Irish wolfounds, PGVB (which are built like bassets) a frenchie won at nationals.. (which is a very heavy bodied dog..)

Guess it's all in how you read it. I saw it more as, AKC is geared more to the expectation that there will be a lot of dogs of shall we say challenging body types...not that other organizations are deliberating excluding those dogs. But yeah upon a reread I can see how especially that second line could be combative.

Originally Posted by Dekka

LOL well here it isn't the blue.. its the red But yes. But the discussion about how other venues aren't fair etc etc. I was just pointing out ALL venues have their pros and cons. Some are harder to Q in (but yes when you compete against each other everyone is under the same rules) some are easier. Some have lower jump heights, some have faster course times (though that often goes hand in hand). Luckily I have the option of various venues, though myself I wouldn't do a venue that was descriminatory, but I don't care if others do. As long as everyone is having fun with their dogs. If you don't like a venue, don't run it.

Well like I said, "in the U.S." lol! And yeah that was kind of my point all along . To be entirely honest, if we had USDAA here I'd switch. There's one trial all year that's within 2 hours...I'm hoping to go next summer to try it out and support having the venue in the area at all. Should be fun.

But yeah, that last sentence is right on the money IMO. Though when you're addicted to the sport, sometimes it can be a matter of picking your poison!

[Flyinsbt]

Originally Posted by Shai

Guess it's all in how you read it. I saw it more as, AKC is geared more to the expectation that there will be a lot of dogs of shall we say challenging body types...not that other organizations are deliberating excluding those dogs. But yeah upon a reread I can see how especially that second line could be combative.
!

Your reading of it was how it was intended.

As far as dogs jumping better at higher heights... some do. Depends a lot on body type, and on how the dog jumps. I actually think that the best height for my Tess (15.5" Stafford) is 18". That's what she has mostly practiced at for the last few years, since I was preparing her for WT tryouts, and I felt it made her more thoughtful. (she did knock a lot of bars at 18", particularly in competition, but she got to see it so rarely in competition and I don't think she ever learned to expect it). She's almost 7 now, so I don't think I'd like to ask it much longer. Staffords are another breed that tends to jump flat.

But 18" isn't generally an option for us, so of the available options, I feel most comfortable with 16. And actually, Tess will move to Preferred and jump 12" soon. Just want to finish her MACH first. I'll keep her at 16" in USDAA for now, if she can keep the bars up, it would be fun to try and finish her ADCH. We don't get to much USDAA, though, so I'll move her down there, too, if needed. She's too heavy-bodied a dog to jump her full height for her entire life.

[stardogs]

TBH I haven't seen any whining here. I've seen a lot of people trying to balance a LOT of different factors for their own animals.

Kes jumps 39" in schutzhund/IPO as part of the obedience routine. There is just one jump height for ANY dog that competes in the sport. He clears it cleanly almost every time, even while retrieving a large dumbbell and sent from a standstill 8' away. It's a nondisplaceable jump, so this is VERY good for safety.

I jump him at 22" in agility. He almost went into the 26" class by height (right at the cutoff).

Just because he *can* jump 39" with an item in his mouth and a nondisplaceable jump doesn't mean that he *should* jump 39" in agility. Just because dogs *can* jump higher, doesn't mean that it's a good idea.

I have a friend with a dog right on the height cutoff. She jumps her higher because the dog jumps better at the higher height. For her, that's the best option, but it doesn't mean that it's true across the board.

I do think that there should be less than 6" difference between jump heights (I like AKC's 4" spacing) because 6" is HUGE, especially in the smaller height classes, but I'm on the fence about lowering the overall highest heights just because of dogs like my friend's.

[Psyfalcon]

Don't go by a fixed difference at all. 12 vs 16 (4 inches) is the same percent difference as 20 vs 26 (6 inch).

[stardogs]

but in aac the difference is 10 to 16, then 16 to 22, which arent. AAC doesn't affect me, but that seems to be one of the biggest illustrations of such gaps.

[Psyfalcon]

Right, each org should pick a percent difference they can handle based on the number of classes they want to run and fairness to the different dogs.