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  #51  
Old 10-14-2012, 09:13 AM
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Re USDAA jump heights (as AAC are the same)

I have a pic somewhere of Kaiden, who jumps 16 as he is 13.25 tall, jumping a spread where you could easily put the 26 inch bars underneath him

There is always specials (or what ever USDAA calls it) if you don't want to jump the height your dog measures at. I do like that the jump is often at least a little bit of an effort for most dogs. But then again I come from the horse world where being able to get over the jump cleanly IS part of the question the course asks you.
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  #52  
Old 10-14-2012, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
I know what you are saying by flyball, eyeroll

but there is a good chance he jumps long and flat due to flyball. Its not a bad thing at all. Its what one NEEDS in a flyball dog. And it has its uses in agility (though not landing 4 on the floor, silly Steve) I think a good portion of it is build, but the rest is how the dog practises jumping most often, esp when young and learning.

Is it fixable, I don't know. But I have noticed a lot of dogs who are very good at flyball who jump agility jumps very long and flat.
I am very curious if he'd jump the same way if he'd never played flyball. And it makes me unsure what I should do with young mister Bean.
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  #53  
Old 10-14-2012, 12:34 PM
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My suggestion would be to do both at the same time. So the dog can learn there are different jumping styles for different jobs.
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  #54  
Old 10-14-2012, 12:38 PM
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Backup is extremely flat. It's been blamed on FB, a lot. That said, he was flat even in FB at 6-12 in jumps.
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  #55  
Old 10-14-2012, 12:43 PM
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IME the less the jumping effort the flatter the jump and the faster the gallop the flatter the jump.
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  #56  
Old 10-14-2012, 12:44 PM
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I think the dogs jump how they think they can get away with.

I have a garden fence that is between 22 and 30 inches. At the low side Ruby can hit it in stride and clear it at a full gallop. Its more of a hurdle than a jump. She can clear the 30 inch fence all day but she has to collect herself first.

Shoulder height is not much of a jump for a dog. Except for the big dogs, there is a lot of opportunity at the AKC jump heights to jump under the shoulder height. That seems really strange to me.
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  #57  
Old 10-14-2012, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by BostonBanker View Post
I'm probably going to the bad place, but I would do pretty much anything to get Gusto in the height class I want. I've had a few Names tell me "Oh, I could get him in 16", and I've been tempted to say "then you please go hold him for the judge".

We'll see. He's so hard to measure, but he's pretty close to the cut off. I'm hoping he'll squeeze under, and you can bet I'm asking around to see which judges I need to avoid (I'm not looking for someone to lie, but I want to stay away from the ones who lose their patience quickly rather than giving the dog time to settle). The world will not end if I have another performance dog. But I really don't want to run my 16.25" dog at 22".
I'm still up in the air about running my youngest dog in USDAA. He may or may not measure into the 16" class. I entered him in one USDAA trial, in performance, where he was measured by the first judge at 16.25", and by the CMJ at 16". The CMJ really took his time to do it right. The dog then got his 2 measurements for his permanent AKC card, both at 16". But to be fair, in AKC, he's smack in the middle of the height class, so neither judge was making a huge effort out of it.

I truly believe, in my heart of hearts, that he measures 16". But I know that it won't take much for him to measure over, and that the Staffords are hard to get an accurate measurement on because of the muscling over the shoulders.

But yes, I'm not jumping my 16", 38 pound dog at 22". That is an unfair effort to ask. I also won't run him in USDAA performance, where his competition will all be significantly taller and lighter than him. We can't be competitive there, and he's a dog who can be competitive. We'll stick to AKC, where he jumps a fair 16"; and I hope to someday take him to World Team Tryouts as I did with his dam. There, he'd jump 18", which is also a fair height for him.

AKC height cutoffs are fair. It does make it a little harder for dogs at the bottom of the height vs at the top, but that's always going to be the case. That is showcased a little in the 16" class, where I am. The smaller BCs in that class tend to measure 17-18", and weigh maybe 25 pounds. Most of the dogs in the 16" class have a more square body type that when shorter, isn't competitive against the lanky body type of the BCs.

However, whatever your dog's height, the most it will have to jump over it's shoulder height is 10%. So no dog is asked for extreme effort, regardless of size.

USDAA heights are not so fair. A dog just over 12", asked to jump 16", is jumping 33% over it's shoulder. A dog just over 16", asked to jump 22", is jumping 37% over it's shoulder. A dog just over 21", jumping 26", is jumping 24% over it's shoulder. So, the little dogs are potentially being asked for a much greater effort than the taller dogs. And the BCs, which dominate those taller classes, are much better suited to the extreme jumping than most smaller dogs.

Of course, if your dog slots nicely into a jump height, it doesn't matter so much. If my Pirate manages to measure into 16" for USDAA, I'll probably go back to just thinking the USDAA heights are a bit stupid, but not concern myself about it.
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  #58  
Old 10-14-2012, 12:57 PM
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To play devils advocate.. why shouldn't the jump effort be an actual effort? I can tell you my sub 12 inch dogs can easily jump 16 inches.. Why should a healthy dog have an issue?

Dekka has laid down runs that were as fast as the BCs running in the higher catagories. Smaller but still powerful dogs can make sharper turns and make up time over taller lighter dogs. Sure some course will be less technical and you you wouldn't be as competative, but on a more technical course, as has been mentioned in this thread, smaller dogs have the advantage.

I personally find the lower height categories a bit strange (I do CPE as well). I just think agility SHOULD be test of physical skill as well as training. That is why bars count.

But then again I find CPE funny too as I can have a bar, or an off course and still Q at level 3 and that refusals never count.. I love the competitiveness of AAC where the dog has to run fast, run clean and (if in regular) make an acutal jumping effort. That said I do enjoy CPE because its so 'easy' after doing AAC.
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  #59  
Old 10-14-2012, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psyfalcon View Post
Shoulder height is not much of a jump for a dog. Except for the big dogs, there is a lot of opportunity at the AKC jump heights to jump under the shoulder height. That seems really strange to me.
It's more the series of jumps that tends to get them. When they are trying to do them at a run with changing angles and jump spacing requires constant changes in collection/extension. As a single hurdle yeah it's not high. When trying to do a series of them faster than anyone else of somewhat similar height, that's when you start getting a challenge

Mira has knocked quite a few bars in her day. To beat the lighter faster BCs we have to run as efficiently as possible so she pretty much leaves hairs on uprights and clears the bars tightly. Which is great except if I don't cue two obstacles ahead like I'm supposed to and she tries to change direction over the bar, she doesn't have a margin for error. So it's on me to give her the info she needs because I like that she jumps so efficiently...she's one of the smallest in her jump height...she's gotta!

As a single hurdle? Heck she's cleanly cleared a 4' woven wire fence without much effort. Different sort of challenge.
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  #60  
Old 10-14-2012, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psyfalcon View Post
I think the dogs jump how they think they can get away with.

I have a garden fence that is between 22 and 30 inches. At the low side Ruby can hit it in stride and clear it at a full gallop. Its more of a hurdle than a jump. She can clear the 30 inch fence all day but she has to collect herself first.

Shoulder height is not much of a jump for a dog. Except for the big dogs, there is a lot of opportunity at the AKC jump heights to jump under the shoulder height. That seems really strange to me.
It's one thing to clear a jump or 2 that requires serious effort, and another thing to do so 18 times in 30 seconds. And then do it again in another hour or so.

This is a 15.5" dog jumping 20":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYx0C-nx6Kw

This is the same dog, jumping 16":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz_4KBhAzWw

This dog can easily jump out of a 30" X-pen, but it's a whole nother story to be asked to jump repeatedly, at speed, several times in the course of a weekend.
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