Jumping style

[BostonBanker]

Is that part of why there is so much push to breed small BCs and small shelties? Or is that something else? Just wanting to stay out of the 'BC classes'?

I think a big part of it is trying to get out of that darn 22" height class. Interestingly enough, what I'm seeing in our area is suddenly the "big people" moving into the 26" class. We've got a top competitor in our region who has a BC that I swear is half horse. He's not competing yet, but she specifically went out looking for a big dog. And she's not the only person I know. It makes me wonder if, in the next few years, the 16" and 26" classes will be the huge crazy ones. They've certainly gotten more competitive in the years I've been competing (not many, compared to a lot of people here).

As for the small dog/large dog thing - I think it is a toss up. I have friends who breed and compete Cavaliers, and do exceptionally well with them. They get a lot of flack for running small dogs and not getting "real" agility dogs. They run twice as fast and far as most big dog handlers, because you don't get the momentum and distance on the little dogs as easily. They train their contacts as hard or harder as anyone I know, because even little dogs can jump the yellow in big extension. Some things are easier with big dogs, some are easier with little dogs.

[Shai]

Originally Posted by BostonBanker

As for the small dog/large dog thing - I think it is a toss up. I have friends who breed and compete Cavaliers, and do exceptionally well with them. They get a lot of flack for running small dogs and not getting "real" agility dogs. They run twice as fast and far as most big dog handlers, because you don't get the momentum and distance on the little dogs as easily. They train their contacts as hard or harder as anyone I know, because even little dogs can jump the yellow in big extension. Some things are easier with big dogs, some are easier with little dogs.

Yep walking off the course with Webster, I'm always breathing harder than I am with Kim, Mira, or the BCs I run sometimes. More running.

[Laurelin]

Originally Posted by BostonBanker

I think a big part of it is trying to get out of that darn 22" height class. Interestingly enough, what I'm seeing in our area is suddenly the "big people" moving into the 26" class. We've got a top competitor in our region who has a BC that I swear is half horse. He's not competing yet, but she specifically went out looking for a big dog. And she's not the only person I know. It makes me wonder if, in the next few years, the 16" and 26" classes will be the huge crazy ones. They've certainly gotten more competitive in the years I've been competing (not many, compared to a lot of people here).

As for the small dog/large dog thing - I think it is a toss up. I have friends who breed and compete Cavaliers, and do exceptionally well with them. They get a lot of flack for running small dogs and not getting "real" agility dogs. They run twice as fast and far as most big dog handlers, because you don't get the momentum and distance on the little dogs as easily. They train their contacts as hard or harder as anyone I know, because even little dogs can jump the yellow in big extension. Some things are easier with big dogs, some are easier with little dogs.

Do the shelties count as 'real' agility dogs? I've never heard that before. It's kind of funny to me.

What keeps the 22 inch class so competitive?

I guess most shelties run 12 or 16?

[~Tucker&Me~]

Originally Posted by BostonBanker

The border collies, I'm not sure if it is conformation or training. They are such fast, flat dogs running, that I think they need very specific work to learn to collect. Otherwise they turn into lawn darts and take down half the bars!

Story of my life...

[Shai]

Originally Posted by Laurelin

'real' agility dogs? I've never heard that before. It's kind of funny to me.

Honestly the only people I've heard that sort of thing from are people I probably wouldn't want to hang around with anyway...no matter what breed I was running!

But yeah there are a few of those around. It's funny, when I "just" ran my dogs and we did well that was one thing...but when I started running a friend's BC for her for a bit, all of a sudden I was a Real Agility Handler. Cuz der was a BC. It was so utterly ridiculous.

And heaven forbid you have a Sheltie or BC who isn't fast...

[Panzerotti]

Originally Posted by Shai

Belgians in general seem to jump big and have trouble turning over the bars. Probably the same reason they are so good at the big jumps required in some of the protection sports and dock diving. Many seem really straight and stiff...from pastern to back to front/rear angles.

Yes! I am working to try to get Pan more flexible over jumps, but it's very slow going. She much prefers to jump then turn as opposed to turning while in the air. Pan also is not the greatest at judging distances at speed and has a weird jumping style where she tucks her rear legs under her instead of extending them.

[Shai]

Originally Posted by Panzerotti

Yes! I am working to try to get Pan more flexible over jumps, but it's very slow going. She much prefers to jump then turn as opposed to turning while in the air. Pan also is not the greatest at judging distances at speed and has a weird jumping style where she tucks her rear legs under her instead of extending them.

Good luck! Pan is in good hands, for sure!

A friend of mine with a Mal just got so fed up...the dog just had a terrible time turning over bars...handle could angle the approach but other than that it was straight across every time. No wrapping the uprights, it was jump-land-turn. Just had no flexibility through his back. That she could manage from handling standpoint though it wasn't ideal...what was so frustrating was any time she would go to an agility seminar, the instructor(s) (usually BC folks) would hone in on this and all the advice she would get was about getting him to flex over the bar...and after a while she'd just be like...I KNOW and yes I am working the whole list of everything to get him flexing can we please move on and critique my handling or anything other than this??? After a few times of this happening other folks would start to chime in to back her up so she would get something out of the seminar other than yet another lecture about how her dog isn't flexing over bars...

[Laurelin]

Good to know it's not too many people like that, Shai. It seems silly to me that people wouldn't consider shelties to be a 'real agility breed' since they're so well represented.

I've seen quite a few slow BCs and shelties though too. It's not like every dog in a breed will be fast.

Originally Posted by Panzerotti

Yes! I am working to try to get Pan more flexible over jumps, but it's very slow going. She much prefers to jump then turn as opposed to turning while in the air. Pan also is not the greatest at judging distances at speed and has a weird jumping style where she tucks her rear legs under her instead of extending them.

I've seen quite a bit of that in the belgians (though these were tervs)

[BostonBanker]

Do the shelties count as 'real' agility dogs? I've never heard that before. It's kind of funny to me.

You've got me. I've actually never gotten it either, but these people seem to get comments like that all the time. It's turned into a joke, where someone is always saying to them "I'm going to get a little dog like you so I don't have to run" or "You should get a real agility dog and see what you can do!". Most of us are kidding. Some aren't.

What keeps the 22 inch class so competitive?

In USDAA, it is where 80% of the border collies wind up, along with most of the Aussies, a few bigger Shelties, and a lot of the sport mixes. Which means you not only have a lot of the super competitive, fast dogs, most of the super competitive fast handlers are in there as well, with one or two or five dogs. It's always the largest class by far, and generally the most competitive, although as I said, it is starting to spread into the other heights a bit.

I guess most shelties run 12 or 16?

Yes, in USDAA they do. There are a few that run in 16" performance with Meg, which means they officially measure into 22". But most are 16" dogs.

[BostonBanker]

I wonder too if people haven't been encouraging agility dogs to jump flat, both without meaning to, and also on purpose. It's no secret that it is the fastest jump possible. Dogs who jump big and round waste a lot more time in the air. I haven't been around the sport long enough to know if that is an issue or not. You wind up gambling on keeping the bars up, but if you do, you are going to be fast.

I don't know, bar knocking is the one issue I haven't had to deal with, and I'm so glad. I can't imagine something more frustrating! I'll take my slow, careful jumpers any day.

Well, okay. Gusto maybe takes it to extremes. Like everything he does. I'm hoping he'll chill out a bit as he gets less green!