Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Forum News > The Fire Hydrant


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 10-12-2012, 08:54 AM
CaliTerp07's Avatar
CaliTerp07 CaliTerp07 is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 7,637
Default

We've looked into it quite seriously. It's the only way I'd consider raising a child. I've specifically researched international adoptions quite thoroughly, talking to adoption agencies that specialize in a couple different countries of interest. Every country is drastically different in their policies.

Most countries are now adopting the policy where children must be available for in-country adoption for the first 3-5 years of their life, and then are available for foreign adoptions. Infants are hard to come by, if that's something you're interested in.

The costs vary. Generally the country's fees are between $15-20k, and the travel expenses and domestic fees you pay on top of it are another $10-$20k. Some countries make you travel their twice (for up to several weeks at a time); a few only require one visit (though generally longer). Some countries match you ahead of time, others tell you there are options but you have to meet the child first before accepting the referral.

There is/was an adoption tax credit up to $13k, but it's expiring this year and is only renewing for special needs adoptions as far as I can tell. Some companies offer adoption credits in their benefits (my husband's offers $3k). It's basically a $30k+ investment though, no matter how you look at it. Kind of frustrating since "making your own" is basically free with insurance.

The timeline is different in different countries too. The quickest I've ever heard of is a year for a special needs child from China. The average wait for a healthy chinese baby though is around 6 years (and you can't even apply until you are both 30). Most countries for a healthy child under 5, the wait is ~3 years.

If we decide to have a child, it will be from a foreign adoption. I just can't justify having my own when there are so many children who need their own homes (and whose "disabilities" are often easily fixable in the US). It really depends on how important it is to my husband though. I would be happy never having a child, but I think one day he's going to want one.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-12-2012, 09:25 AM
stardogs stardogs is offline
Behavior Nerd
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: NC
Posts: 4,486
Default

Just curious, but why do so many people go with international adoption when there are plenty of children needing homes here? We have friends who just adopted a baby girl in their state - they were able to be there shortly after she was born and she went home with them just a few days later. It seemed to work incredibly well for everyone involved.
__________________
Erin, Ziva, Kestrel, Aerten, and Snipe
Always in our hearts: The Amazing Maggie Mae


Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-12-2012, 09:30 AM
JacksonsMom's Avatar
JacksonsMom JacksonsMom is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,921
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stardogs View Post
Just curious, but why do so many people go with international adoption when there are plenty of children needing homes here? We have friends who just adopted a baby girl in their state - they were able to be there shortly after she was born and she went home with them just a few days later. It seemed to work incredibly well for everyone involved.
I am curious too. How do adoptions work like... say, when teenagers get pregnant and give their baby up for adoption? Here in the US?

I think I'd like an infant, honestly, if I was going to adopt and I know that's the popular choice and hardest to get... but I just would like the aspect of raising a child from infant-hood.

The costs stink... maybe I'll marry a rich guy. Just kidding. I think if I in a relationship where the man wanted it just as badly as me, we would make it work.
__________________

Brit & Jackson


Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-12-2012, 09:57 AM
Fran101's Avatar
Fran101 Fran101 is offline
Resident fainting goat
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 12,296
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stardogs View Post
Just curious, but why do so many people go with international adoption when there are plenty of children needing homes here? We have friends who just adopted a baby girl in their state - they were able to be there shortly after she was born and she went home with them just a few days later. It seemed to work incredibly well for everyone involved.
- Each state has their own policies, which is a pain.
They are all pretty intensive and just as rigorous in many cases as international adoptions
http://www.childadoptionlaws.com/

- How long the mother has to sign over her consent is also quite an ordeal.. (Which is commonly from 48 hours to as much as 2 months)

The amount of time that a birthmother can revoke her consent does vary by state (also, there tends to be different guidelines for birthfathers as far as when their consent can be obtained, when it becomes legal, what happens if the birthfather is unknown, etc). I believe that the laws of the state that the child is born in are the ones that are followed for the adoption.

It is also important to note that while a birthmother can sign her rights over starting at the 48th hour after birth, it doesn't mean that she has to (she might need more time before making the decision -she can take as long as she wants to make the decision). Also, there is usually a waiting period before the child can be taken from birth state to his/her new home state (amount of time is dependant on the state's involved and how quickly paperwork and people move, can be days, could be weeks).

- Costs really aren't that different.
Both types of adoption have similar total costs, typically ranging from around $25,000 to $50,000, but they both have their own unique costs. (international: traveling to country, Domestic: traveling to state.)

According to the National Council for Adoption, domestic and intercountry adoptions can cost $8,000-$40,000, typically falling in the $15,000-$25,000 range. In comparison, according to Adoptive Families magazine, the estimated cost for a China adoption - which is the No.1 nation for international adoption in the U.S. - is $20,000-$25,000. The estimated cost for a Guatemala adoption is $25,000-$30,000 and a Russia adoption is estimated to cost $30,000-$40,000

It's a common misconception that domestic adoptions are the less expensive route. It CAN be true, but sometimes.. not by how much you would expect.

- Domestic adoptions sometimes involve paying for birth mother expenses.

- Newborn domestic adoptions fall through.. a lot. You are dealing with birth mothers, agencies, families of that child, father drama, cold feet... it happens. It's heartbreaking.


But some things I would like to clear up


- It is a total myth that in the US, a birth mother can up and claim her child back years later. This has been HIGHLY media hyped and has only happened a handful of times in the past due to shoddy/shaddy adoptions and bad lawyers.
THE LAW IS CLEAR. Once consent is signed, that child is yours. PERIOD. No matter what state, no matter what.

- You can only get a newborn in the US. You can get an INFANT from other countries though.. but if you have your heart set on a newborn... domestic is going to be your route

- You have to be very careful with birth mothers.. we had a domestic adoption fall through after paying for rent, food, medical expenses etc...

As for why my family did?

Ok, to begin.. Let's face it, you cannot compare even the WORST US foster home to the orphanages across the globe. There is no comparison. They all need homes but MANY of my now spoiled happy little cousins were facing malnutrition, flat heads, a myriad of other health problems VERY CURE-ABLE in the US (From clef palate, to lip, to intestinal blockages,to signs of abuse and just plain neglect) not to mention emotional trauma from the conditions. We have a claustrophobic 6 year old who can't be in any small space because he was kept in a crib, as a TODDLER, with bars on the top so he couldn't get out for most of the day/night.
US foster homes aren't a walk in the park either.. but at the very least, you have basic care and aren't facing malnutrition.

and thinking of what the future could be for them. In haiti, human trafficking is PREVALENT with girls. It's hard to imagine the fates of many of my now loved family members..
Don't get me wrong, growing up out of US foster care, it's tough. But.. you arent' dealing with slavery, prostitution, mercenaries, drug trafficking mules etc..

I don't mean this towards you, but you wouldn't believe how often people are rude about these kinds of questions. Like adopting internationally is something to be ashamed of or something.

I just really hate the "our children" and "their children" mentality. We all live on this planet, who cares WHERE you are getting your needy child from? adoption is wonderful regardless of where. I don't think location makes some children more deserving of homes then others.
you would not BELIEVE how much flack we get for adopting internationally. Like we have done the kids in foster care in the US some great insult or done something awful.. UMM.. They are adopting children who need homes. It's awesome. PERIOD. The choice is very personal and those who haven't adopted at all are usually the ones takes offense which in itself, I find laughable and a bit hypocritical.

Love for the different cultures, travel, people, places. We call my russian cousin our little souvenir lol they fell head over heels for the culture, even those in the impoverished places ..they worked with farm owners and poor people for work and wanted to personally help, so applied.

being able to offer health care to kids that wouldn't. Like I said before.. all of them had something that was going untreated (or being treated the wrong way) Proper health care in orphanages internationally are sometimes very lacking.. other than basic neglect, we were also dealing with more serious health problems that were previously over-looked.
My cousin from Haiti is about 13 now. She looks about 10 from the years of malnutrition and the strain on her body. The nutrition she WAS getting was wasted away due to a problem with her intestines/digestive tract. She's had countless surgeries on her spine from it developing incorrectly and if it weren't for her being adopted..all these things would've gone un-treated.

At the end of the day..personal choice. It made more sense for what they were looking for, wanted, application processes etc..
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-12-2012, 09:59 AM
Pops2 Pops2 is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UT
Posts: 3,072
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stardogs View Post
Just curious, but why do so many people go with international adoption when there are plenty of children needing homes here? We have friends who just adopted a baby girl in their state - they were able to be there shortly after she was born and she went home with them just a few days later. It seemed to work incredibly well for everyone involved.
because when you adopt a baby girl out of say india or ukraine, you are very likely removing at least one child from the strong likely hood of being sexually abused or enslaved as a prostitute at some point in their life. while the same could be said of adopting domestically the odds are far higher in those countries than in industrialized western countries.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-12-2012, 10:01 AM
JoLeigh's Avatar
JoLeigh JoLeigh is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greenville SC
Posts: 579
Default

Like Pops I was adopted also. I ALWAYS KNEW meaning I was told since before I even really knew what it meant mom says I used to say " I wasn't bornded I was 'dopted" It was a private adoption so other then the legalities of it no one else was involved. And I feel that is one of the most vital aspects in adopting an infant, no lies, no hiding the truth, no "waiting till they are ready" that just harbors distrust and a feeling of betrayal. It is a wonderful and beautiful thing to be adopted by such a loving caring mother I truly cant thank my bio enough for giving me the chance to live the life I did with the family I have.

But not everyone will understand, not everyone has tact even when speaking to a very small child (or in front of them) just something that if you decide to you should be prepared for. Some of the things Ive heard said to me or to my mom in front of me.
-When are you going to have a REAL child.
-Thats so good of you to raise a child that isnt yours.
-So do you know your "real" mother
-It must be hard to not know who your family is.
That's all I can think of right now but there have been others Im sure.

Oh and it is always interesting having to explain I dont have a father people always assume he died and cant quite grasp I just ~don't~ have one never have lol.


Legacy of an Adopted Child
Once there were two women who never knew each other.
One you do not remember, the other you call mother.
Two different lives, shaped to make your one...
One became your guiding star, the other became your sun.
The first gave you life and the second taught you to live it.
The first gave you a need for love, and the second was there to give it.
One gave you a nationality, the other gave you a name.
One gave you a seed of talent, the other gave you an aim.
One gave you emotions, the other calmed your fears.
One saw your first sweet smile, the other dried your tears.
One gave you up ... that's all she could do.
The other prayed for a child and God led her straight to you.
And now you ask me, through your fears,
the age old question unanswered throughout the years...
Heredity or environment, which are you the product of?
Neither, my darling ***133; neither.
Just two different kinds of love.

~ Author Unknown ~
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-12-2012, 10:05 AM
Pops2 Pops2 is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UT
Posts: 3,072
Default

joleigh
my dad says i came to him when i was about 4 or 5 and asked him if i was adopted. he said yep. i said okay and went off to play. about a year later i came & asked him what adopted meant.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-12-2012, 10:07 AM
JoLeigh's Avatar
JoLeigh JoLeigh is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greenville SC
Posts: 579
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fran101 View Post
-
But some things I would like to clear up [/B]

- It is a total myth that in the US, a birth mother can up and claim her child back years later. This has been HIGHLY media hyped and has only happened a handful of times in the past due to shoddy/shaddy adoptions and bad lawyers.
THE LAW IS CLEAR. Once consent is signed, that child is yours. PERIOD. No matter what state, no matter what.
Not intirely there is a period of time the birth mother can change her mind now in GA (the only one I know for sure) it is 2 weeks. When I was born it was exactly 1 entire year.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-12-2012, 10:10 AM
JoLeigh's Avatar
JoLeigh JoLeigh is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greenville SC
Posts: 579
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pops2 View Post
joleigh
my dad says i came to him when i was about 4 or 5 and asked him if i was adopted. he said yep. i said okay and went off to play. about a year later i came & asked him what adopted meant.
my mom said I used to think I came from an orphanage and had a whole tales from my stay there I was like 2-3 at the time The Rescuers was one of my favorite movies :P
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-12-2012, 10:12 AM
Fran101's Avatar
Fran101 Fran101 is offline
Resident fainting goat
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 12,296
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JacksonsMom View Post
I am curious too. How do adoptions work like... say, when teenagers get pregnant and give their baby up for adoption? Here in the US?

I think I'd like an infant, honestly, if I was going to adopt and I know that's the popular choice and hardest to get... but I just would like the aspect of raising a child from infant-hood.

The costs stink... maybe I'll marry a rich guy. Just kidding. I think if I in a relationship where the man wanted it just as badly as me, we would make it work.
If you mean infant as in newborn..the US is going to be your route. The youngest international baby we have is the youngest you can get them..around 4 months old.

lol Juno really wasn't that far off. You can work with the mother through lawyers/an agency who specializes and pairs you or a teen you know from someone.

You can work on terms of the adoption. Open, closed, semi-closed. Closed is traditional (here's the baby. No contact. No nothing), Semi-closed is more popular ( Sometimes closed with updates, options for the child knowing the birth mother etc..)

Then when the baby is born, the mother consents/signs the rights to you. This can be anywhere from 48 hours after birth to 30 days.

Challenges? Families that pay for the mother's..rent, food, medical expenses, money just because etc.. only to have her back out. There is no legal refund policy on this kind of thing.

Cold feet. all that excitement, a baby is born, a baby you have been waiting for FOR MONTHS.. and there is still uncertainty. Still time for her to sign, does she want to hold the baby? when do you get to? etc..etc..etc.. It's not paying for a baby by any means, there is so much grey area, nothing is guaranteed.

It is a MYTH that birth mothers can take kids back at any time. They have a certain amount of time, set by the state, to sign the consent. but after that, that baby is yours. Period.
__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:28 PM.


1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site