Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Discussions and Dog Talk Forums > Dogs - General Dog Chat


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 10-11-2012, 11:49 AM
Paige's Avatar
Paige Paige is offline
Let it be
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,359
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red.Apricot View Post
If Elsie's totally over-stimulated, saying, "Elsie, SIT," a a loudish clear voice and touching the tip of one finger very gently to the base of her tail is the thing that will get her to come back to earth and sit down (even if she's barking). That's not punishment, I don't think; she doesn't act like it bothers her, and there's really no way touching her gently there hurts her. But, I could see how you could do basically the same action and call it the same thing but do it in a painful way.
If Bandit is really distracted I do that too. Not stern or loud, just a firm "sit" and if he ignores the command, I will gently place my hand above his tail and he instantly sits. Sometimes he does respond better to a physical cue versus a verbal one. Doesn't mean it has to be harsh though.
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 10-11-2012, 11:54 AM
yoko's Avatar
yoko yoko is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 5,341
Default

Just so we're all on the same page I don't see touching your dog to get a sit as any thing near the same as slapping your dog because 'they don't get it' otherwise.
__________________
Thank you Vivien and Angel Chicken for the siggy! Also I have been frosted!!! And as of 9/13/07 I know the secret handshake!


Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 10-11-2012, 12:00 PM
sassafras's Avatar
sassafras sassafras is offline
such sights to show you
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 5,734
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paige View Post
If Bandit is really distracted I do that too. Not stern or loud, just a firm "sit" and if he ignores the command, I will gently place my hand above his tail and he instantly sits. Sometimes he does respond better to a physical cue versus a verbal one. Doesn't mean it has to be harsh though.
Yes sometimes when Squash's mind is lost in space I will step in front of him and gently just take hold of his collar on either side of his head with my hands and drop my voice to a low, quiet "SIR, sit" and it seems to snap him out of it. But it's not a harsh grabby hands or popping/jerking kind of thing, more like if you cupped your hands on someone's cheeks if that makes sense. Not harsh, but works for him.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 10-11-2012, 12:30 PM
HayleyMarie's Avatar
HayleyMarie HayleyMarie is offline
Like a bat outa' hell
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Beautiful British Columbia!!
Posts: 6,882
Default

I have been physical with Emme once when she was chasing the tractor in our field plowing the ground. She never seen a big huge tractor before and I was horrified that she was going to be run over. So I ran after her yelling, which of course she ignored and when I did get a hold of her I grab her and yanked her to the ground all the while yelling at her. She never chased the tractor after that, but honestly I was so upset for what I did. I felt horrible and still do to this day.
__________________


Teagan Westhighland White Terrier
Panzer South African Boerboel Mastiff
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 10-11-2012, 12:55 PM
Dogdragoness's Avatar
Dogdragoness Dogdragoness is offline
<------ CLAIM! ^_^
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Gillett/San Antonio TX
Posts: 3,565
Default

Same here, if I am playing with my dogs, they know they have to sit before I wil throw the ball again, but sometimes they will refuse the command due to being stimulated so I will put the ball behind my back & give a firm look & a snap of my fingers & they sit. I wait a beat before I throw it again.
__________________


Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 10-11-2012, 01:11 PM
Doberluv's Avatar
Doberluv Doberluv is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: western Wa
Posts: 21,914
Default

There were times with Lyric where he was so in lala land that I couldn't quite get his attention. I'd say, "Hellllloooooooooo," like the expression when you are conveying something that's obvious, like duh....and he'd think someone was at the door and go roaring to the door with snarly barking. LOL. I had to get out of that habit. Talk about distracting!
__________________
"If you love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams 1776





"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 10-11-2012, 01:19 PM
Danefied's Avatar
Danefied Danefied is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Southeast
Posts: 1,722
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by adojrts View Post
That is just a whole bunch of molding/prompting, which is what a lot of ppl do when the dog doesn't response because the dog dosn't fully understand what is being asked of them. Person then 'helps' the dog. Then it turns into the cue. Can work, but it is a problem when off leash and the dog is at a distance from you. Same as a verbal, most dogs don't respond well to a verbal that hasn't been taught correctly. See it all the time (as I am sure other trainers here have as well). Owner says sit, no response, Sit, no response, SIT!, no response, SIT!!!!! (then the molding often happens), dog finally sits. What the person doesn't understand is that the dog is waiting for all those repeats and/or the molding because that is how it was taught. Which is the fundimental flaw of using a verbal to get an action when training a new behaviour. Instead of adding the verbal to the behaviour when the animal does it, also the best way to get an immediate response to 1 verbal cue with no repeats. And unless they retrain it, they will never get a dog to sit (or whatever they taught) immediately and quickly on 1 cue. Not the dogs fault.
Yep

"Don't name it 'till you love it." Who says that? Is that a Garrett-ism?

Pretty much all dogs tune in to body language before they tune in to verbal cues. And no, not the dog's fault at all. Our verbal language is totally meaningless to them, but they watch us like hawks. That's why when training a new behavior, you don't put a name to it until you know for sure that the dog is going to reliably offer that behavior.
Next dog I train to trial I'm going to amuse myself by coming up with oddball verbal cues for the obedience commands. I think sit should be something like park it, that sort of thing.
__________________
"We become better trainers by refusing to swallow uncritically what is tossed to us as truth,
by developing our powers of empathy and observation,
and by searching for better ways to teach and educate the dogs we love."
~Suzanne Clothier
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 10-11-2012, 02:31 PM
adojrts's Avatar
adojrts adojrts is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,089
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danefied View Post
Yep

"Don't name it 'till you love it." Who says that? Is that a Garrett-ism?

Pretty much all dogs tune in to body language before they tune in to verbal cues. And no, not the dog's fault at all. Our verbal language is totally meaningless to them, but they watch us like hawks. That's why when training a new behavior, you don't put a name to it until you know for sure that the dog is going to reliably offer that behavior.
Next dog I train to trial I'm going to amuse myself by coming up with oddball verbal cues for the obedience commands. I think sit should be something like park it, that sort of thing.
Can't remember if that is her's or not. I love these two from her however, 'if you reward crap, you'll get crap' and 'is this good? or can it be better'.
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 10-11-2012, 02:56 PM
Doberluv's Avatar
Doberluv Doberluv is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: western Wa
Posts: 21,914
Default

Quote:
"Don't name it 'till you love it."
Yep...I love that. It's so common a mistake. Even though I know better, I have found myself jumping the gun a little bit on some things. Then the darn thing doesn't get installed very well or I have to go back and fix it. People must remember that cues don't drive behavior. Consequences do. It's easy to slip up sometimes.
__________________
"If you love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams 1776





"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 10-11-2012, 04:14 PM
Paige's Avatar
Paige Paige is offline
Let it be
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,359
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sassafras View Post
Yes sometimes when Squash's mind is lost in space I will step in front of him and gently just take hold of his collar on either side of his head with my hands and drop my voice to a low, quiet "SIR, sit" and it seems to snap him out of it. But it's not a harsh grabby hands or popping/jerking kind of thing, more like if you cupped your hands on someone's cheeks if that makes sense. Not harsh, but works for him.
I manage Bandit's leash reactivity by standing in front of him with a finger looped through his collar. He instantly calms down. Sure, its not training, but some times I just need to manage the situation or do not have the mental/emotional stamina to train him. It works for us. I don't see an issue with physically handling a dog to get it through a less than ideal situation but I'm not a big fan of being rough on them. Heck I used to pick Spanky up and toss him over my shoulder to passo ther dogs because his reactivity was so intense, I had no idea what to do and it worked.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:54 AM.


1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site