Hitting spanking slapping popping

[Paige]

Originally Posted by Red.Apricot

If Elsie's totally over-stimulated, saying, "Elsie, SIT," a a loudish clear voice and touching the tip of one finger very gently to the base of her tail is the thing that will get her to come back to earth and sit down (even if she's barking). That's not punishment, I don't think; she doesn't act like it bothers her, and there's really no way touching her gently there hurts her. But, I could see how you could do basically the same action and call it the same thing but do it in a painful way.

If Bandit is really distracted I do that too. Not stern or loud, just a firm "sit" and if he ignores the command, I will gently place my hand above his tail and he instantly sits. Sometimes he does respond better to a physical cue versus a verbal one. Doesn't mean it has to be harsh though.

[yoko]

Just so we're all on the same page I don't see touching your dog to get a sit as any thing near the same as slapping your dog because 'they don't get it' otherwise.

[sassafras]

Originally Posted by Paige

If Bandit is really distracted I do that too. Not stern or loud, just a firm "sit" and if he ignores the command, I will gently place my hand above his tail and he instantly sits. Sometimes he does respond better to a physical cue versus a verbal one. Doesn't mean it has to be harsh though.

Yes sometimes when Squash's mind is lost in space I will step in front of him and gently just take hold of his collar on either side of his head with my hands and drop my voice to a low, quiet "SIR, sit" and it seems to snap him out of it. But it's not a harsh grabby hands or popping/jerking kind of thing, more like if you cupped your hands on someone's cheeks if that makes sense. Not harsh, but works for him.

[HayleyMarie]

I have been physical with Emme once when she was chasing the tractor in our field plowing the ground. She never seen a big huge tractor before and I was horrified that she was going to be run over. So I ran after her yelling, which of course she ignored and when I did get a hold of her I grab her and yanked her to the ground all the while yelling at her. She never chased the tractor after that, but honestly I was so upset for what I did. I felt horrible and still do to this day.

[Dogdragoness]

Same here, if I am playing with my dogs, they know they have to sit before I wil throw the ball again, but sometimes they will refuse the command due to being stimulated so I will put the ball behind my back & give a firm look & a snap of my fingers & they sit. I wait a beat before I throw it again.

[Doberluv]

There were times with Lyric where he was so in lala land that I couldn't quite get his attention. I'd say, "Hellllloooooooooo," like the expression when you are conveying something that's obvious, like duh....and he'd think someone was at the door and go roaring to the door with snarly barking. LOL. I had to get out of that habit. Talk about distracting!

[Danefied]

Originally Posted by adojrts

That is just a whole bunch of molding/prompting, which is what a lot of ppl do when the dog doesn't response because the dog dosn't fully understand what is being asked of them. Person then 'helps' the dog. Then it turns into the cue. Can work, but it is a problem when off leash and the dog is at a distance from you. Same as a verbal, most dogs don't respond well to a verbal that hasn't been taught correctly. See it all the time (as I am sure other trainers here have as well). Owner says sit, no response, Sit, no response, SIT!, no response, SIT!!!!! (then the molding often happens), dog finally sits. What the person doesn't understand is that the dog is waiting for all those repeats and/or the molding because that is how it was taught. Which is the fundimental flaw of using a verbal to get an action when training a new behaviour. Instead of adding the verbal to the behaviour when the animal does it, also the best way to get an immediate response to 1 verbal cue with no repeats. And unless they retrain it, they will never get a dog to sit (or whatever they taught) immediately and quickly on 1 cue. Not the dogs fault.

Yep

"Don't name it 'till you love it." Who says that? Is that a Garrett-ism?

Pretty much all dogs tune in to body language before they tune in to verbal cues. And no, not the dog's fault at all. Our verbal language is totally meaningless to them, but they watch us like hawks. That's why when training a new behavior, you don't put a name to it until you know for sure that the dog is going to reliably offer that behavior.
Next dog I train to trial I'm going to amuse myself by coming up with oddball verbal cues for the obedience commands. I think sit should be something like park it, that sort of thing.

[adojrts]

Originally Posted by Danefied

Yep

"Don't name it 'till you love it." Who says that? Is that a Garrett-ism?

Pretty much all dogs tune in to body language before they tune in to verbal cues. And no, not the dog's fault at all. Our verbal language is totally meaningless to them, but they watch us like hawks. That's why when training a new behavior, you don't put a name to it until you know for sure that the dog is going to reliably offer that behavior.
Next dog I train to trial I'm going to amuse myself by coming up with oddball verbal cues for the obedience commands. I think sit should be something like park it, that sort of thing.

Can't remember if that is her's or not. I love these two from her however, 'if you reward crap, you'll get crap' and 'is this good? or can it be better'.

[Doberluv]

"Don't name it 'till you love it."

Yep...I love that. It's so common a mistake. Even though I know better, I have found myself jumping the gun a little bit on some things. Then the darn thing doesn't get installed very well or I have to go back and fix it. People must remember that cues don't drive behavior. Consequences do. It's easy to slip up sometimes.

[Paige]

Originally Posted by sassafras

Yes sometimes when Squash's mind is lost in space I will step in front of him and gently just take hold of his collar on either side of his head with my hands and drop my voice to a low, quiet "SIR, sit" and it seems to snap him out of it. But it's not a harsh grabby hands or popping/jerking kind of thing, more like if you cupped your hands on someone's cheeks if that makes sense. Not harsh, but works for him.

I manage Bandit's leash reactivity by standing in front of him with a finger looped through his collar. He instantly calms down. Sure, its not training, but some times I just need to manage the situation or do not have the mental/emotional stamina to train him. It works for us. I don't see an issue with physically handling a dog to get it through a less than ideal situation but I'm not a big fan of being rough on them. Heck I used to pick Spanky up and toss him over my shoulder to passo ther dogs because his reactivity was so intense, I had no idea what to do and it worked.