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  #11  
Old 10-10-2012, 09:35 AM
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Tailcreek Tailcreek is offline
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Depends on a lot of factors. The severity and frequency of the health or temperament issues that you can reliably verify. Don't discount environmental influences either. Environment plays a huge role. The care that you give your dogs may be a lot different than other people who may be experiencing issues with their dogs. Diet especially. Take two dogs from the same litter and feed one Old Roy, do not give them enough exercise or training and then feed the second dog a natural diet, with plenty of exercise, training and stimulation and you will have two very different dogs.

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  #12  
Old 10-10-2012, 10:38 AM
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Depends on the issue and how major/minor it is. I don't compromise on health, temperament or prey drives (don't want over threshold drives or lack of drives). They are imo, that hardest to remove or fix.

Conformation, yep I'll compromise on that one, doesn't mean you ignore a major flaw, esp one that can or will effect the dogs life, well being or cost the owner money in vet bills or limits the dog in any way. But conformation is the easiest and fastest thing to change. Look at how fast a trend or type can become prevalent in the show ring.
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  #13  
Old 10-10-2012, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adojrts View Post
Depends on the issue and how major/minor it is. I don't compromise on health, temperament or prey drives (don't want over threshold drives or lack of drives). They are imo, that hardest to remove or fix.

Conformation, yep I'll compromise on that one, doesn't mean you ignore a major flaw, esp one that can or will effect the dogs life, well being or cost the owner money in vet bills or limits the dog in any way. But conformation is the easiest and fastest thing to change. Look at how fast a trend or type can become prevalent in the show ring.
i agree, circle gets the square.

something i will point out, good breeders research their dogs pedigree even when just starting and can pinpoint which dog introduced what into the line. most hunting & game dog breeders could tell you which dog(s) in a pup's pdeigree caused which trait ESPECIALLY if they were linebreeding. most people doing scaterbreeding can't do it because they rarely know or are able to track a pedigree back ten plus generations. which is also a big complaint about BYBs & mills in that they don't even know 3 generations.
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  #14  
Old 10-10-2012, 03:47 PM
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I wouldn't rush to scrap the line, but I'd be looking at where it came from, and if I needed to concern myself with it.

Thing is, if you're breeding on a small scale like that, the dogs and lines you use are not going to be just yours. They are being used by other people, and are probably going to involve matings that you wouldn't do. So the problem that arises is as likely to be from that side of the pedigree that you wanted nothing to do with.
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  #15  
Old 10-10-2012, 04:43 PM
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I didn't read the whole thread, and I find it unlikely I'd ever become a breeder, so take this with a grain of salt


Do you continue using those lines even if other people have experienced health or temperament issues with similar pedigrees? It depends on whether the issues are confirmed, how serious they are, how close they are to my lines, and how common they are. If I'm breeding labradors and find out 10 dogs that are nieces and nephews of my dogs were put down at 7 or 8 years old from hip dysplasia, even if my lines are clean, then I don't continue. If I find out two or three dogs have had more mild hip dysplasia issues, or dogs more distantly related are having issues, maybe not. Basically, if they're closely enough related that my dogs are sharing most of the same genes, and the issues are popping up very frequently, I don't think I'd continue.

When do you "Scrap" a line? Do you try and bring in new blood, possibly compromising the type you like, or do you just scrap the whole breeding program? I'm going to say when a decent percentage of the line is having issues compromising their working ability or any notable percentage of the dogs are having issues compromising their quality of life. If I found some other great dogs, I'd bring in new blood, but I don't think I'd do it just to save the line if I couldn't find a dog of the type I like.

Would you start to worry if others were having issues with the lines you use, even if you're not? I'd certainly look into it more and be cautious. But if my lines have, for a few generations, tested healthy, and whatever issues are effecting others don't seem to be an issues in my dogs, I don't think I'd stop breeding.
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  #16  
Old 10-10-2012, 05:08 PM
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As someone who actually recently scrapped a line... I wouldn't necessarily do it over something that was popping up from dogs related to mine, assuming I knew about it to begin with. You have to stop and realize that, at least in MY breed (which may be completely different in others, in fact I know it is in several), most breeders either don't health test or just do the absolute bare minimum they can get away with in order to say they've done something, without actually giving a ****. Most health and temperament issues are swept under the rug, or worse. Even if people did health test all of the show dogs - I specify show dogs because in my breed I can't think off the top of my health of any current working breeder who health tests - most (and this applies to all breeds) honestly don't require that pets be health tested as well, so you end up missing a good sized portion of data to begin with unless something pops up in a pet dog that is obvious and is THEN diagnosed. The best you can really do, again, at least in my breed, is breed your own completely health tested, temperamentally stable dogs and watch for problems.

I imagine the decision is probably a whole lot easier in breeds where breeders work together for the most part where it comes to calling out breeders who consistently produce dogs afflicted by health or temperament issues, consistently health test their dogs and make the results public knowledge. I've unfortunately only seen a few of those breeds...
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  #17  
Old 10-10-2012, 05:45 PM
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It's so hard to say if/when/how that would happen really. If it was a major life threatening health issue that was clearly coming from dog X, then yup, I'd scrap it.

If it's something to be watched and/or easily treated like thyroid, then no, not as likely but would likely take that into consideration when breeding to work away from it.
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