Obama/Biden versus Romney/Ryan?

[sparks19]

See... It is all equally sinful until you repent. God forgives all sin if you ask for it and try your best not to willfully continue to sin.

I had sex before marriage. Lots of it. Am I proud of it? No. I also wasn't a believer then. That lifestyle got me in trouble and also lead to the most enlightening and trying experience of my life. Three years with an incredibly manipulative and emotionally abusive man (not married). I realized eventually that my choices in life landed me in that situation. I didn't treat muself with respect so why would I care if anyone else did. God saved me from that. He gave me the strength to get out and the clarity to realize how damaging my mindset was.

I am a sinner but now I know I have a saviour. I TRY not to sin but I am human so it happens. The key is realizing it and asking God for his forgiveness. Admitting that I am a sinner and trying not to repeat my mistakes. Sometimes it is like wandering through thr desert... I have to wander around a few times before I figure it out but i keep trying to do better and to figure it out.

There is no sin in this world that cannot be forgiven... It is willfully continuing to carry on that sin without care or repentance.

[Lyzelle]

Exasperbation (n): the irrational desire to reason with the delusional.

That's all I got. Oh, and kudos to Danefied and Fran.

Also, Separation of Church and State.

[Fran101]

Originally Posted by Puckstop31

I'll pick this, but is an answer to all the other "what about.... what if...." stuff.

ALL sin is equally bad. We all sin and fall short of the glory of God. Because He loves us, God comitted the single most loving act in the history of the universe. He took our place. He gave us an out. IF WE ACCEPT IT and repent of our sin.

Tanya is my 2nd wife. :O I fully admit that I made a mistake and married a person who I should not have. I commited a sin, but because of God's grace i'm forgiven. That is not spiking the ball or in any way mean I think "well, I cna do whatever I want, God has my back". I still strive to live my life as best I can, but I will always fall down from time to time.

The difference is I don't make excuses for my sin, I confess the sin and ask my Savior to forgive me. Just like He promised He would.

Is it a shame that many churches seem to elevate homosexual sin above others? Yes. That does not give it a pass. Sin is sin.

Ok so those who are homosexuals, who have done something "wrong" as far as the bible goes, as you have, and ask for forgiveness and do feel they are forgiven.
Why are you still against them?
I mean, after all.. they have made "mistakes" as far the bible goes,as you have, and are just living their lives the best they can.

I used the term free pass because you DO seem to have a double standard based on this issue. You are forgiven, jesus forgave you because he promised..
but what about gay people? They shouldn't have a right to marry in a way the bible doesn't see fit (as YOU did)?

You fall down from time to time and don't conform to the perfect "bible ideal" yet condemn others that also don't fit the "perfect mold". Gay people shouldn't marry because it's in the bible that it's wrong. But under those same rules, you wouldn't be married at Tanya. If all "rights were wronged" you wouldn't be allowed to have married her and you wouldn't have gotten divorced and every day you wake up and are married to her..it's sinning. You don't apologize for it, in fact, you are thankful for it and admit that you are obviously happy being married to her and don't regret it and you know god loves you etc..

so isn't it possible for god to love gay married couples as well?
even if they aren't perfect, even if they sin.. as you aren't and do.

"But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery."

So going by your last post, Sparks, should anyone who married a divorced woman in the past now leave her so as not to continue sinning? I'm not being snarky, I'm genuinely trying to understand.

[sparks19]

Originally Posted by Lyzelle

Exasperbation (n): the irrational desire to reason with the delusional.

That's all I got. Oh, and kudos to Danefied and Fran.

Also, Separation of Church and State.

I don't know why you can't just have a normal exchange of ideas without the unnessecary sarcasm. Not just in this thread but many threads.

[Fran101]

Originally Posted by sparks19

See... It is all equally sinful until you repent. God forgives all sin if you ask for it and try your best not to willfully continue to sin.

I had sex before marriage. Lots of it. Am I proud of it? No. I also wasn't a believer then. That lifestyle got me in trouble and also lead to the most enlightening and trying experience of my life. Three years with an incredibly manipulative and emotionally abusive man (not married). I realized eventually that my choices in life landed me in that situation. I didn't treat muself with respect so why would I care if anyone else did. God saved me from that. He gave me the strength to get out and the clarity to realize how damaging my mindset was.

I am a sinner but now I know I have a saviour. I TRY not to sin but I am human so it happens. The key is realizing it and asking God for his forgiveness. Admitting that I am a sinner and trying not to repeat my mistakes. Sometimes it is like wandering through thr desert... I have to wander around a few times before I figure it out but i keep trying to do better and to figure it out.

There is no sin in this world that cannot be forgiven... It is willfully continuing to carry on that sin without care or repentance.

Ok, so homosexuality is a sin as is being re-married.
Those who (like puck) are re-married, sin..every day. by being remarried and staying in that new marriage (it's all adultery from the start) as do homosexuals that go on every day being gay (adultery)

Isn't it possible that you guys are in the same boat as far as being imperfect but god loves you anyway because you are good people?

and isn't part of free will the right to make those choices? To marry? To unmarry? To forgive? To repent etc..

Puck KNOWS being re-married is a sin but it's not like he regrets it. He knows he's a good guy and loves who he loves unconditionally.
can't the same be said for gay people? They love who they love and only god himself should be able to judge them.

It seems to me the relationship with god is pretty personal. People who have relationships with jesus/religion are VERY personal when it comes to how they see things, how they seem themselves, how god has forgiven them... but how about extending that to how god sees others?

I'm an atheist.. through and through. but, if I wasn't..I gotta say, from all i've heard about this god guy. It seems to me he would love good people regardless of who they loved and married down here..

[Puckstop31]

Originally Posted by Fran101

so isn't it possible for god to love gay married couples as well?
even if they aren't perfect, even if they sin.. as you aren't and do.

I suppose. Except that, as I see it, 2 gay pepople could not be married as the Bible defines it.

That said, why should people of faith support enabling sin? That akin to bringing triple chocolate cake to a weight watchers meeting.

[Lyzelle]

Originally Posted by sparks19

I don't know why you can't just have a normal exchange of ideas without the unnessecary sarcasm. Not just in this thread but many threads.

Honestly? Because I can't take people like you or your husband seriously. So I prefer to make light of the situation with sarcasm. I hardly find it unnecessary.

I'm more than willing to "exchange ideas" with those who aren't trying to force others into their religion and beliefs by putting it into law. I enjoy theological debates most of all.

But I do not enjoy hearing you and your husband tell people they should "know better" and try to play the victim card with your religion and justify your beliefs in alienating the population via federal or state law.

[Fran101]

Originally Posted by Puckstop31

I suppose. Except that, as I see it, 2 gay pepople could not be married as the Bible defines it.

That said, why should people of faith support enabling sin? That akin to bringing triple chocolate cake to a weight watchers meeting.

I'm not asking for it to be enabled. Merely for some..empathy? Perhaps instead of loudly condemning or trying to take away the rights of people.. to love them anyway. I mean..what would jesus do and all. I don't think jesus would be out trying to force his commandments into laws and stop people from marrying.

How would you like it if people of faith stood up and decided not to ENABLE your remarriage? To picket and protest and say mean things just because you love the person you love. Even if you knew god didn't hate you.. people would judge you and hurt you and say what you have is wrong (even though you know you love this person) and not let you attend church and say god hates you and that your marriage isn't real..just because the bible says what it does. Even if you are good and honest and love your wife now.. people would say you don't have the right to marry her because THEY think it's wrong.
2 re-married people can't be married as far the bible defines it either. Adultery and all..

I'm not going to sit here and argue. I'm an atheist so really, who am I to say what god would or wouldn't do.. but I personally think he would be a lot nicer than a lot of his people are as far as people who are different.

[stardogs]

For some levity that is still related to the original topic:

http://freakoutnation.com/2012/10/09...ere-they-nest/

I don't care what side you're on, you do have to admit that it's a pretty funny take on some of Mitt's statements about PBS...