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  #261  
Old 10-09-2012, 08:58 AM
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I should have known...



First and foremost, I believe the Bible to be the inspired Word of God. That God wrote it by inspiring the human authors. Frankly, that idea is core to the Christian faith. If we compromise on what it says, what is the point? Its either all 100% true, or none of it is. Its easy for the humanist to pick the Bible apart if you do not take it in context. Also, being a 'trained' historian I understand that if one studies something with a specific intent, well, you will come to the predetermined conclusions. You need to study the Bible looking for answers, not confirmation of what you already believe.

Next, I do not vote to impose my will/faith on others. I vote my conscience, just like you. I am NOT for forcing ANYone to live or believe the way I do. For instance, I want government out of the marriage business and in the civil union business. Leave marriage to the churches as they see fit.


Like I said before, I will not let the secular humanist define what a Christian is/should be.

And look at that... Here we are talking about social issues in a political thread when social issues won't matter a hill of beans if we are all broke and utterly depend

I, and I am sure others in this thread, am not ignorant to what the Bible says or the myriad of interprations that stem from it. I was raised Christian, went to Christian schools and had religion classes daily. My FIL is evangelical. It's not that I came to the Bible with an agenda, or a bias. It's that I can read it WITHOUT one.

Second, yeah no. Not ok with churches taking over marriage. It is NOT a religious contract, but it can be. No one decided who your church gets to marry.

Third, yep, social issues are JUST as important as economic ones. Not like Romney actually is going to help that anyways but there are other Countries around that may have money but suck in the human rights department. I am not wiling to sacrifice social issues.
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  #262  
Old 10-09-2012, 09:41 AM
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I, and I am sure others in this thread, am not ignorant to what the Bible says or the myriad of interprations that stem from it. I was raised Christian, went to Christian schools and had religion classes daily. My FIL is evangelical. It's not that I came to the Bible with an agenda, or a bias. It's that I can read it WITHOUT one.
Interesting. My experience was pretty much the complete opposite. Read it as a young person and thought it hogwash. Lived some life. Realized that the only reasonable explanation for life was in it.

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Second, yeah no. Not ok with churches taking over marriage. It is NOT a religious contract, but it can be. No one decided who your church gets to marry.
I disagree. I believe that marriage is a matter of faith. The Bible is pretty specific about it.

See the rub? Where is the line? I reject the idea that the only good government would be by people who are blind to a faith.

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Third, yep, social issues are JUST as important as economic ones. Not like Romney actually is going to help that anyways but there are other Countries around that may have money but suck in the human rights department. I am not wiling to sacrifice social issues.

As for economics... Romney can do no worse than the last two people occupying the White House. Plus, he has a record of fixing financially broken organizations. All the last two guys did was max the credit cards. And for what?

I am not saying social issues are not important, only that they won't matter much if we are all fighting each other for a loaf of bread and a gallon of gas. There is historical precedent for how we are handling the financial matters of our country and that precedent bodes ill for us.
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  #263  
Old 10-09-2012, 10:01 AM
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Marriage has been a contractual agreement across the world for thousands of years that grants certain social and legal rights, responsibilities and protections for thousands of years. Whether religion was involved or not and not matter what religion it was. Funny that in this country people are find interpreting things the way they want to be happy, but can't afford others that same right, or are a bit too willing to take it away from someone else.
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  #264  
Old 10-09-2012, 10:16 AM
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The bible can say whatever it wants about marriage, it didn't invent it
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  #265  
Old 10-09-2012, 10:27 AM
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The bible can say whatever it wants about marriage, it didn't invent it
Well... No. Not the Bible. I believe God gave marriage to mankind, along with everything else in the natural order of the world.

I understand you don't believe that. But can't you see the smidgen of hypocrisy? Somehow you voting your conscience based on your faith is OK, while me doing the same is not? Why? Just because your faith 'tolerates' more than mine?

God is loving... But he is ALSO just. Its those rules that our flesh does not like, so we rebel... Usually at our own peril.
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  #266  
Old 10-09-2012, 10:34 AM
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No, I don't see hypocrisy in realizing my faith is not for everyone. Seeing that while MY faith says one thing, letting others have their faith and their rights is the moral and just thing to do. ( and yes, of course I am not going to say anything can be excused by anothers faith but gay marriage does absolutely nothing to anyone but the two entering I to the contract. )

I don't like that most Christian churches condemn gay marriage for instance, but I will defend their right to not recognize or perform them eVen though I think it's not moral.
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  #267  
Old 10-09-2012, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by release the hounds View Post
Marriage has been a contractual agreement across the world for thousands of years that grants certain social and legal rights, responsibilities and protections for thousands of years. Whether religion was involved or not and not matter what religion it was. Funny that in this country people are find interpreting things the way they want to be happy, but can't afford others that same right, or are a bit too willing to take it away from someone else.
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The bible can say whatever it wants about marriage, it didn't invent it
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Originally Posted by Greenmagick View Post
No, I don't see hypocrisy in realizing my faith is not for everyone. Seeing that while MY faith says one thing, letting others have their faith and their rights is the moral and just thing to do. ( and yes, of course I am not going to say anything can be excused by anothers faith but gay marriage does absolutely nothing to anyone but the two entering I to the contract. )

I don't like that most Christian churches condemn gay marriage for instance, but I will defend their right to not recognize or perform them eVen though I think it's not moral.
Very well said.

Being a moral person is not dependent on being a religious person -- nor does being a religious person bestow morality on one's actions. Morality is based on individual choices, whether they are personal or adopted from someone/something else.
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  #268  
Old 10-09-2012, 01:46 PM
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Marriage came before the Christian religion.

I believe the Christian religion is just another passing phase... Thousands of years ago, the Egyptians had their God, and now he is fable. Then the Mayans had theirs...and now he is fable, too. The Romans... It is now fable. And in a few thousand years, the Christian God will also be fable.
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  #269  
Old 10-09-2012, 02:01 PM
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I don't see Christianity, Islam or Judaism going anywhere. They'll continue to morph, being highly political religions that have a continuing history of being used more effectively to gain and maintain political power than the others (I don't consider the Romans as having any religion, since they merely took over existing religions in their path and renamed -- or not -- the deities to sound more Roman, and they were the first to recognize and seize Christianity as the perfect vehicle to consolidate political power).

The Abrahamic religions are here, as well, in an age of technology that provides easy dissemination and use.

On the other hand, other, older religions are resurfacing visibly because they, too, now can be communicated easily, and followers can communicate with each other, something that hasn't been possible since the Romans brought the hammer down on the world and closed the mind of the world.

My vote for "religion most likely to survive the eons" is Buddhism -- largely because it is really a philosophy based mainly on being a decent human being and part of that is not insisting on "there can be only one [religion]."
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In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves. ~Buddha

Stupid is the most notoriously incurable and contagious disease known to mankind. If you find yourself in close proximity to someone infected with stupid, walk away as soon as said infection is noted.


There are few things more nauseating than pure obedience. ~ Kvothe

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  #270  
Old 10-09-2012, 03:07 PM
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Well after an interesting morning where I woke up 15 minutes before I had to leave for work and in that time get myself AND Hannah ready to go (which I did with time to spare BTW lol cause I'm awesome like that) I have not had the time nor desire to argue about the never ending cycle that is the political and religious debate because in the end it's not going to change one single thing and we'll all be back where we started from lol.

and quite frankly.. my brain is tired.

I can't vote so I'm not "voting and forcing others to follow my beliefs".

As for

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Gosh I hope we have the right to take away rights! If you drive drunk you lose your right to drive a vehicle. If you show up at school and shoot the place up you lose your right to bear arms. If you prey on little children you lose your right to your pursuit of happiness and you lose your liberties.

.
I don't think getting a license and driving a car is a right. it's a privilege. there are LOTS of people who can't get a license. We don't just hand out cars to every person of legal age because it's not a right. Drive drunk and lose your privilege of having a license and vehicle.

If you show up at school and shoot up the place you are making a CHOICE and CHOOSING to forfeit your right to bear arms... but you still have RIGHTS.

Same with preying on little children. You CHOSE to forfeit your right to freedom... but you still have RIGHTS.
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