Obama/Biden versus Romney/Ryan?

[Barbara!]

Funny thing is... The New Testament doesn't condemn loving relationships between same sex couples. Who would have thunk it?

[CaliTerp07]

Originally Posted by Linds

That's just it, I try very hard not to vote with my own personal moral compass. I try very hard to vote in a way that allows people to continue on letting their moral compass guide them without letting that personal compass intrude onto others.

When you let your moral compass (be it god(s), the bible, your lack of a god or bible or whatever) dictate what other people can do with their own lives and bodies, as long as it does not infringe on others, is when I start having major issues with your moral compass.

Though, I guess you could very well argue that my moral compass is the belief that other people should be given equality and the right to live as they see fit as long as others are not being harmed or infringed on.

This.

I am strong in my faith, but I would never vote church principles into law. Faith and your beliefs are a choice, not something that can or should be forced on others. I am so beyond frustrated when Christians (or those of any other faith, but it seems to be us Christians lately...) try to legislate their version of morality. Lead by example, not by force.

[CaliTerp07]

Originally Posted by Barbara!

Funny thing is... The New Testament doesn't condemn loving relationships between same sex couples. Who would have thunk it?

Ah, don't go there. You will soon receive PMs explaining why Paul's letters condemn homosexuality, and how if you can't see that you are intentionally avoiding the truth.

I agree with you, but it's only going to open a huge can of worms here that isn't really relevant to this discussion.

[Greenmagick]

This explains my views pretty well (and I find it entertaining so I am sharing lol)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=U9G8XREyG0Q

[Renee750il]

Originally Posted by Laurelin

All nice and good if your state lets you vote for a third party. Not all of us can.

That really baffles me -- that the state bars you from voting for anyone but the two major parties. What's even more baffling is that none of the voting rights organizations has raised hell over it.

[OwnedByBCs]

Originally Posted by MandyPug

All i have to contribute now.

That is amazing.

[Danefied]

Originally Posted by sparks19

Human rights come from humans who also had no issue keeping slaves and still let rapists get away with it but we put more stock in humans determining rights?

Yes I do because as a rational, thinking person I am willing to look at alternate views and reconsider my convictions based on the facts and evidence presented. Much as we no longer think women are lesser citizens and should not be allowed to vote, just as we no longer think racial segregation is a good idea, much as we no longer think that forcing a 13 year old girl to marry a man in his 50’s is a good idea, much as we no longer think that sacrificing a goat at an altar will convince some deity to keep natural disasters at bay.

If the bible is the word of God, then God gives directives for keeping slaves and when to offer up your virgin daughters to be raped, so it seems to me that God doesn’t have much of an issue with either. Not to mention it didn’t even come up in the commandments. Don’t say his name with a bad attitude came up, don’t have any other gods came up, don’t wish you had your neighbor’s donkey came up, but don’t enslave people of other races or beliefs wasn’t covered, don’t rape young women of different races or beliefs wasn’t covered. Seem to me that if he had room on those tablets to mention how we should say his name, he might have slipped in something about not raping or enslaving.

Now we could also argue that the bible is not the word of God but man’s interpretation of the word of who man interprets to be God but that would kind of complicate things if you’re trying to use the bible as a superior moral code.

Originally Posted by sparks19

If humans made the rights than humans can take them away. No matter WHAT their reasoning (religious or otherwise)... As humans we have the right to take away rights because we gave them?

Gosh I hope we have the right to take away rights! If you drive drunk you lose your right to drive a vehicle. If you show up at school and shoot the place up you lose your right to bear arms. If you prey on little children you lose your right to your pursuit of happiness and you lose your liberties.

Originally Posted by sparks19

I have some points to make on biblical side of things but I am typing from my phone so I will make them tomorrow from the computer...

Just so you know, I have read the bible extensively, I have studied the bible, as well as other religious texts. I’m not trying to be disrespectful to your religion nor trying to make you defensive.

I don’t have an argument with you, I don’t have an argument with your beliefs... I have an argument with those beliefs being imposed upon me and my children through the guise of government.

Our founding fathers were *very* clear on separation of church and state and I don’t think some of our current legislators understand that part at all. The church has NO place in the running of our country. Personally I don’t even like the fact that churches don’t pay taxes. I think that is ridiculous.

“Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.” ~Thomas Jefferson
“The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.” ~ also Jefferson.

George Mason was the author of the Virginia declaration of rights and he and Jefferson corresponded extensively.
"That as Religion, or the Duty which we owe to our divine and omnipotent Creator, and the Manner of discharging it, can be governed only by Reason and Conviction, not by Force or Violence; and therefore that all Men shou'd enjoy the fullest Toleration in the Exercise of Religion, according to the Dictates of Conscience, unpunished and unrestrained by the Magistrate, unless, under Colour of Religion, any Man disturb the Peace, the Happiness, or Safety of Society, or of Individuals. And that it is the mutual Duty of all, to practice Christian forbearance, Love and Charity towards Each other.” ~George Mason in one draft of the Virginia declaration of rights. (Emphasis mine.)
IOW practice whatever religion you wish, just don’t impose your religion on me.

[Laurelin]

Originally Posted by Renee750il

That really baffles me -- that the state bars you from voting for anyone but the two major parties. What's even more baffling is that none of the voting rights organizations has raised hell over it.

Yeah. Oklahoma's kind of ass backwards though. They have tried petitions to get a write in put on the ballot.

I believe there are only two states that don't allow a write in or a third party put on the ballot. I'm half tempted to write in anyways or just not vote. Oklahoma will go red anyways.

[Puckstop31]

I should have known...

For those of you who have known me a long time, I am a much different person today than I was a year ago. Many of my points of view are the same, but I endeavor to discuss them in a much different way. So let me clear up a few things here, because this discussion assumes some things about me that are quite untrue.

First and foremost, I believe the Bible to be the inspired Word of God. That God wrote it by inspiring the human authors. Frankly, that idea is core to the Christian faith. If we compromise on what it says, what is the point? Its either all 100% true, or none of it is. Its easy for the humanist to pick the Bible apart if you do not take it in context. Also, being a 'trained' historian I understand that if one studies something with a specific intent, well, you will come to the predetermined conclusions. You need to study the Bible looking for answers, not confirmation of what you already believe.

Next, I do not vote to impose my will/faith on others. I vote my conscience, just like you. I am NOT for forcing ANYone to live or believe the way I do. For instance, I want government out of the marriage business and in the civil union business. Leave marriage to the churches as they see fit. Also, I do not believe the absurd notion that women are less than men. What we are is different, with different roles. If you people think I dominate or RULE my wife.... LOL You clearly do not know her. As for the abortion issue... I do not believe in a law that makes abortion illegal. But I do believe in the sanctity of human life and am disgusted by how the secular humanist frames the abortion debate.


Like I said before, I will not let the secular humanist define what a Christian is/should be.

And look at that... Here we are talking about social issues in a political thread when social issues won't matter a hill of beans if we are all broke and utterly dependant on .gov. Nice trick.

[yoko]

Originally Posted by Laurelin

Yeah. Oklahoma's kind of ass backwards though. They have tried petitions to get a write in put on the ballot.

I believe there are only two states that don't allow a write in or a third party put on the ballot. I'm half tempted to write in anyways or just not vote. Oklahoma will go red anyways.