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  #91  
Old 10-04-2012, 08:14 AM
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People who are having trouble buying basics or can't buy basics on their own should not TRY to add expenses.....and a baby is a large expense.

Basics:
Food
Shelter
utilities
Clothing
Health Insurance
School expenses----as in text book rental (I think my youngest son's rental was 155.00 this year) yearly supplies, and the ability to buy/pack a lunch for the child

I feel that a car w/insurance is also pretty basic in this day......it's difficult AT BEST to get by without one, and honestly, pretty impossible for the most part.

Do I think birthday/Christmas gifts are basics? No, though it would break my heart if I couldn't provide them for my kids........and I sure as heck wouldn't add MORE kids to the family if we were in that state. That's a personal choice I guess as long as YOU are paying your own way.
This is exactly how I feel.
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  #92  
Old 10-04-2012, 08:47 AM
Fran27 Fran27 is offline
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Do I think birthday/Christmas gifts are basics? No, though it would break my heart if I couldn't provide them for my kids........and I sure as heck wouldn't add MORE kids to the family if we were in that state. That's a personal choice I guess as long as YOU are paying your own way.
That's what I believe. Nope, birthday gifts are not basics, but don't you think that if someone can't buy their kids a present, they might have some issues feeding another child?
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  #93  
Old 10-04-2012, 08:51 AM
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That's what I believe. Nope, birthday gifts are not basics, but don't you think that if someone can't buy their kids a present, they might have some issues feeding another child?
Maybe yes, maybe no. It depends on how they allocate their money, whether they budget or not, etc.
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  #94  
Old 10-04-2012, 08:55 AM
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Maybe yes, maybe no. It depends on how they allocate their money, whether they budget or not, etc.
Hmmm, maybe yes maybe no depending on budgeting? I don't get it.

If they don't 'do' gifts for whatever reason, fine. They just don't 'do' gifts and that's how it is. Every family is different.

If they WISH they could buy their child a gift and can't, then no, you can't afford another child IMO. Budgeting? Ok....50.00 for xxx this month, 100.00 for xxx, 500.00 for xxxx........oh look, nothing left over for that gift we really wanted to buy little johnny. LETS ADD ANOTHER BABY!

Wha?? Yep, spin the budget how you want.........don't get it.

ETA: I budget......I budget my dern butt off, LOL We have raised 5 children, so trust that I UNDERSTAND A BUDGET. If I put X amount of dollars into the emergency house repair fund, it doesn't get taken out of that fund because we want to go out and eat. If I put X amount into the college funds, it doesn't get taken out when someone needs a birthday gift...........so yes, I understand budgeting (and sticking to it) just fine.

Just saying, you know you have a child who's going to have a birthday or christmas the SAME TIME EVERY YEAR. If you DO gifts.......you know to budget for a gift EACH YEAR. So again, don't get the 'budget angle' thing.
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  #95  
Old 10-04-2012, 09:14 AM
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Just saying, you know you have a child who's going to have a birthday or christmas the SAME TIME EVERY YEAR. If you DO gifts.......you know to budget for a gift EACH YEAR. So again, don't get the 'budget angle' thing.
Well I've been dirt poor enough that there was no part of the budget allocated to gifts... literally not enough money for it. And my husband and I have gone through periods of unemployment where our lives and budgets were stripped down to the bare essentials... but we're still always paid the rent/mortgage, utilities, and fed ourselves and the pets and provided vet care for them. To an outside observer our lives might not have appreciably changed, so it might have seemed weird for us to say something like "sorry, can't go out on Saturday night, we can't afford it."

My perspective is that gifts are an extra, not a basic need or essential. After everything else is covered, then money goes into the things that are "nice" to have. There are a LOT of things one can go without and still properly provide shelter, food, clothing, and other basics for a child or pet.
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  #96  
Old 10-04-2012, 09:26 AM
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Well I've been dirt poor enough that there was no part of the budget allocated to gifts... literally not enough money for it. And my husband and I have gone through periods of unemployment where our lives and budgets were stripped down to the bare essentials... but we're still always paid the rent/mortgage, utilities, and fed ourselves and the pets and provided vet care for them. To an outside observer our lives might not have appreciably changed, so it might have seemed weird for us to say something like "sorry, can't go out on Saturday night, we can't afford it."

My perspective is that gifts are an extra, not a basic need or essential. After everything else is covered, then money goes into the things that are "nice" to have. There are a LOT of things one can go without and still properly provide shelter, food, clothing, and other basics for a child or pet.
I am not disagreeing with a single word you said above......not one. And believe that Kevin and I have counted PENNIES in a grocery line at one point when we were first married, and that wasn't to buy steaks.......it was for mac n cheese/beanie weenies. We couldn't even AFFORD a dog, cat, or goldfish at the time! LOL Our kids have worn used clothing, nothing wrong with it at all.....and they've been taught that as well.

Did you guys go out and add more pets when you were stripped to bare essentials? If you did, I'd count that as unfair, selfish towards the pets you already owned who were also 'stripped to essentials' *shrugs* That's my opinion.

The point in this thread that I agree with is this: If you CAN'T afford to 'budget' money for a gift you wish to give your child....(doesn't have to be a stinking iPad or something)....saying, there's no wiggle room to put $2 dollars a week/month (whatever) into a separate fund so they can have a gift.........how on EARTH can you be budgeting monies to give birth and support yet another life?

THAT is the point I see clearly.
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  #97  
Old 10-04-2012, 09:47 AM
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The point in this thread that I agree with is this: If you CAN'T afford to 'budget' money for a gift you wish to give your child....(doesn't have to be a stinking iPad or something)....saying, there's no wiggle room to put $2 dollars a week/month (whatever) into a separate fund so they can have a gift.........how on EARTH can you be budgeting monies to give birth and support yet another life?

THAT is the point I see clearly.
And the point that I see is this: those $X/week/month/whatever put into a food or clothing budget may be what allows a parent to support their kids in more essential ways. And if that is how someone chooses to spend their money... so what? If someone chooses to live a lifestyle with 2 kids and no "extras" vs 1 kid who gets birthday presents, why is that a dirty sin? Kids don't NEED birthday presents.
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  #98  
Old 10-04-2012, 09:54 AM
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*sigh*

Ok, I know it costs HUNDREDS (if nothing goes wrong) along WITH insurance just to give birth. After that, the REAL expenses begin.

If your budget is so tight that you can't squeak out even a buck or two a month in a separate fund, you really can't afford TO PLAN another baby.......period. Hope gas prices to get you to work don't go up, food cost increases, school field trips, etc etc etc

And with that, I will bow out.

EDIT: One more thing! LOL.....Kids absolutely do NOT need presents. You tell me how it feels for YOU to look into your child's face and tell them. And it's not going to be just one......cause you know, you have to tell that other child you budgeted for too! Not as easy as you might think until you are actually looking at your own child.

And now I'll leave, promise! haha
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  #99  
Old 10-04-2012, 10:12 AM
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*sigh*

Ok, I know it costs HUNDREDS (if nothing goes wrong) along WITH insurance just to give birth. After that, the REAL expenses begin.

If your budget is so tight that you can't squeak out even a buck or two a month in a separate fund, you really can't afford TO PLAN another baby.......period. Hope gas prices to get you to work don't go up, food cost increases, school field trips, etc etc etc

And with that, I will bow out.

EDIT: One more thing! LOL.....Kids absolutely do NOT need presents. You tell me how it feels for YOU to look into your child's face and tell them. And it's not going to be just one......cause you know, you have to tell that other child you budgeted for too! Not as easy as you might think until you are actually looking at your own child.

And now I'll leave, promise! haha
Also, kids get sick... a LOT. Even with insurance, you're looking at copays of $20-50 just to walk through the door at a doctor's office. If you can't afford a $10 gift for a child's birthday, how on earth can you afford to a) add another kid, and b) take them to the doctor's if they get sick?

If you're barely scraping by and only keeping your head above water, WHY would you choose to add another child? What if the cost of oil to heat your house rises next winter? What if you have a repair bill and can't scrape anything else off your living costs to cover it?

It's not like we have an underpopulation problem and need to correct it. lol. I just don't understand why you'd add another (very expensive) human into your family if you were barely making ends meet.

It just boggles my mind.
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  #100  
Old 10-04-2012, 10:36 AM
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I think people who have never been dirt poor would be amazed how little essentials CAN cost. I've gone through periods where my food budget was $15 a MONTH and eaten fine or spent next to nothing on clothes or entertainment in a year's period without feeling deprived.

It's just a peeve of mine that I'm probably defensive about because I've been there, and being poor isn't a dirty sin. I grew up comfortably middle class and being poor as an adult was an eye opener for me - I don't think most people have any idea how extravagant their lifestyles really are, even if it doesn't feel that way when you're living it.

And this whole argument presumes no birth control failure, etc.

Yes, a lot of people have kids who shouldn't have them... rich people AND poor people. Being poor and not being able to afford extras does not necessarily mean someone doesn't deserve kids. And unless you know the details of someone's finances, insurance, etc (which you probably don't) or you know their kids aren't being cared for, then why do you care?
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