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  #751  
Old 10-03-2012, 09:36 PM
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Nono Renee... Saying it wrong. It's Bozo.
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  #752  
Old 10-03-2012, 09:36 PM
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I think I do too.....

I have defended at least one person on here that ended up being all kinds of crazy and the situation ended tragically for her dog. Since then I have been more cautious-fool me once....
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  #753  
Old 10-03-2012, 09:39 PM
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Yep -- the only chazzers I would actually stand up for if it came down to something like this would be the ones I've met. Because really... those are the only ones I can say without a doubt that I've SEEN their dogs/them with their dogs.
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  #754  
Old 10-03-2012, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JessLough View Post
Yep -- the only chazzers I would actually stand up for if it came down to something like this would be the ones I've met. Because really... those are the only ones I can say without a doubt that I've SEEN their dogs/them with their dogs.
And I can at least vouch for the fact that you didnt kill Jessies dogs or abuse them and you volunteered to walk my crazy hound LOL.
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  #755  
Old 10-03-2012, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renee750il View Post
Okay . . . gotta be BM . . .

And Baha -- THANK you for that post
Welcomes. Just what came to me as I was reading this thread.
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  #756  
Old 10-04-2012, 12:58 AM
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Bahamutt- That is a great comparison and one that I thought of a lot while researching things before I posted this here. Tanya finally got help and that is good. But she had to WANT help for it to work, Jairi has to want help and recognize the problem before any help will actually "help". I do feel that Jairi needs some help, I agree with Stafinois that Jairi is constantly looking for something that is eluding her. As I said numerous times, I don't think she did this purposefully, I think it happened and she got in over her head.

I have drafted an email with the proof from Dianna,vet reports and pictures. I did send it out to multiple breed clubs and performance clubs in WA,OR,CA and ID as a Breeder Beware. I also sent it to AKC and UKC and am following up with each of them.
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  #757  
Old 10-04-2012, 01:18 AM
~Tucker&Me~ ~Tucker&Me~ is offline
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Ok so takeaway lesson from the last page or so...

I need to meet some chazzers so I have proof I am not crazy or psycho
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That's what we do here. We're emotionally invested in each other and each other's dogs, the joys and the sorrows.
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  #758  
Old 10-04-2012, 02:25 AM
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Since this story is being brought up here with my name attached to it... I'm not Midnight Sun. Midnight Sun was the kennel name of Elissa, who is now my kennel partner and when we merged dogs we took my kennel name, Seven Sins.

Anyway, this is pretty much accurate except that in the first incident, the home she was in was temporary while she was waiting on the new house to be finished. Animal control assured Midnight Sun (again Midnight Sun was my co-breeder's kennel name, not mine and never has been), who sent her Dawn, that the dogs were in great condition, including Aries (Repo), and that the only actual issue at hand was that Tonya was one dog over city limits. Something that many of us are or have been, so that didn't faze us. So, it was a simple matter between putting trust in Animal Control, whose profession it is to honestly evaluate situations involving animals and report their findings, or another breeder whom neither of us knew personally and both of us had just seen win photos of Aries 10 days prior...who didn't actually step foot into her house when she went to get Aries. She was asked immediately for photos of Dawn, she took photos as requested, and she looked fine.

UNfortunately, we chose to believe our "friend." Fought tooth and nail over it, much like Barbara is doing... We chalked it up to having nothing else newsworthy to report in a small town, since nothing was visibly wrong from thousands of miles away, between what was being said by the person in question, AC, and photos. At least not glaringly. Were there signs? Yes, and they should have been paid much more attention in retrospect.

Tonya moved to her new house, and when she asked for another puppy, Midnight Sun flew to her house to deliver Gremlin. A mutual friend of ours at the time, already mentioned (Ryker's owner), who was local to this person was at her house constantly, consistently taking photos of the dogs. They were always fine. We sent her a dog named Akando. Gremlin and Akando were the only two dogs bred by MS whom she owned. She then bred a litter out of Dawn, and again, aforementioned ex mutual friend was constantly taking photos and reporting that the animals were fine.

Then the photos stopped coming. We kept asking, and there was always an excuse as to why photos couldn't be taken. Finally, out of the blue one day, she called MS at about 10PM one night... "You've got to know what's going on!" and then started sending photos of Dawn, who was emaciated beyond that of the puppy in this thread. MS dropped everything and flew from Alaska to Michigan on the first available flight to try and take care of things. Somehow in all of this, MS (and I, by association, apparently) became a demon and the person who literally, physically watched their friend starve dogs to death and near death became the "hero" with regard to that situation.

Now, that said...Baha is right. Denial didn't help anyone, trusting a "friend" not to betray their dogs and their "friends" didn't help anyone, defending them and excusing away the little signs didn't help anyone. Especially the dogs.

I understand WHY Barbara is defending her friend so much. You NEVER want to think that someone you think you know, and trust, would do that, intentionally or otherwise. But it happens. When there is so much damning evidence against the person, as in the case with this Fila puppy, and evidence of lies and fabrication to cover it up? You can't excuse that away. You just can't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahamutt99 View Post
I'm going to share a little introspection of mine. It has nothing to do with the Fila pup specifically, but it has to do with human nature and the things we keep hidden, and what we choose to dig up and expose to sunlight.

I understand the desire to offer staunch defense to the underdog. It's what we do. We see someone getting "jumped on," and we view it as bullying and want to rise to their defense. I am always impressed with the loyalty people show to one another, kind of like these dogs. With the internet being what it is, sometimes we become fast friends with people we have never met. But sadly, that also makes it very easy for people to hide a lot of epic badness.

I once rose to the defense of a gal in Michigan named Tonya. I met her via an online dog game we played together, sold her books and everything. I never met her in person. Her kennel name was Friefly, and she was into APBTs of course. This all happened several years ago and the resulting poopstorm was not really publicized except on the Pit Bull forums. There were, I think, only one or two local news articles about it. So what I'm going to talk about is from my own memory. I'm trying to confirm things via a friend. But there isn't a long paper trail. Forum threads got deleted, and online news articles expire. My Googlefu is not strong.

Anyway, I considered Tonya a friend. As stated, I never met her personally. She was involved in the show world, and seemed to be on the right path. Plus, she was just a very nice person. Tonya started out very well-intentioned, showed some dogs. She got a dog from Midnight Sun Kennels (aka SevenSins here) named Dawn. She got a dog from Miakoda kennels (Repo, can't remember his original name). She got more dogs from MSK. She bred a litter out of Dawn and a Caragan male named J.D. (Some of you know a pretty brindle boy named Ryker, owned by Amanda in MI? He came from that litter.) She had other breedings, dunno if they were accidental or not. Her population exploded, she went through some personal problems, and it didn't take long before she was in over her head.

Tonya had some dogs taken to A/C when her house was condemned. People stepped in to take them out of there, like the owner of the stud who sired Repo (Val P in WA). (I got to meet Repo at a show in TX, and he was a lovely dude.) It became publicly known, described in very colorful and damning terms, and the poop started flying. Anyway, at the time I was Tonya's stalwart defender. No way would she let her dogs live in poor conditions. Heck, she was showing her dogs! In her pictures, the dogs were beautiful and I was secretly envious of a few of them. I took all kinds of heat from those "people hiding behind their screens" on the forums for defending her, but I stuck by her side through the first wave.

Things settled down for a while, at least publicly, and then there was another seizure. Dogs ended up dying in the shelter. Some of the key players tried to save what they could, but there were casualties. Some of the dogs died in the shelter when they couldn't be released to anyone but their owner/co-owner. It was a mess. I was not a key player, just a "screen warrior," but I ended up feeling like a fool for insisting that nothing was wrong, quit bashing on my Tonya, people shouldn't judge, etc.

Anyway. To this day, I still cannot bash Tonya. And I am not bashing any of the people who were involved in that situation, because I figure everybody has their own conscience and demons to wrangle with. But there was a problem brewing, and all the denial in the world did not help these dogs. If there had been an earlier "outing" and intervention, maybe there would have been a happier outcome. From what I hear, Tonya is normal now and not drowning in dogs, which I am very happy to hear. The dogs that got out are in loving homes.

All I'm saying is, sometimes people being outed in public isn't necessarily a bad thing. It isn't necessarily dragging them through the mud. Sometimes its HELP they need, and maybe they don't even know it.

That is all. [engage lurk mode]
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  #759  
Old 10-04-2012, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by ~Tucker&Me~ View Post
Ok so takeaway lesson from the last page or so...

I need to meet some chazzers so I have proof I am not crazy or psycho
Yay! I have a couple of people to vouch for me!
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  #760  
Old 10-04-2012, 11:13 AM
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I have to pipe in real quick.

First, I think I've been around long enough online that people know I don't "hide behind thinly veiled insults". I'm a very honest and open person, and I despise passive-aggressiveness. I will say what I mean, and mean what I say.


Second, I'm going to have to step up (and be the first and only?) and say that I have an issue with it being said that this puppy wasn't neglected intentionally. It most certainly was intentional. I'm not saying that there isn't a much larger issue at hand, as there very well is, but this dog wasn't what she wanted (or she didn't get enough fame and recognition for owning it), therefore she made the decision to not positively interact with this puppy or feed it as basic needs demand. Not only that, she was smart enough to start weaving a web of deception in order to justify the treatment of this puppy. I wholeheartedly believe she was planning on using this cover-up to hide the fate of the pup. That may less one to believe that there is a much larger issue with her, but it doesn't absolve her of blame for actions that were deliberate and calculated. Intentional.

The fact that this pup was again uprooted and rehomed and yet managed to immediately start gaining weight makes me immediately throw out the whole "the poor puppy was only just too stressed to eat, so Teal's not to blame".


I think many of us can raise our hands and say that we once felt overloaded and stressed with our animals at some point. And I think many of us have also owned dogs that just didn't click or we just didn't like all that much. But at no time are those situations an excuse for failing to provide the very basics of canine care.....such as food.

And another sad side effect is the increased hardship of potential owners being allowed to obtain a dog from a long-distance breeder. People, such as myself, might now be turned down because of actions by Teal and others like her.
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