Returning a dog to the breeder - Questions/Rant

[Barbara!]

Originally Posted by stafinois

Jairi jumps all over the place as far as breeds she is interested in, so we have no idea what she will end up with next. She's expressed interest in other sighthound breeds, herding breeds, sled dogs, and now apparently PWDs.

WHAT, exactly, is wrong with that?

[sassafras]

Originally Posted by Barbara!

See what I mean?

Doesn't matter what anyone says. You have your conclusions, and I have mine.

Seems like that's a two way street here, because... seriously, what kind of proof is it that would convince you that this puppy reached this condition under her care? Several people have specifically said they don't think it was done maliciously, but... there is a fair amount of evidence between all the dates, photos, posts, and vet report that this puppy reached this condition in her care.

[~Jessie~]

Barbara, if this puppy didn't reach this condition in Jairi's care (which Jairi claims the puppy looked fine when he left), then how do you think it happened?

[Barbara!]

I have already explained what I think happened.

[Xandra]

Originally Posted by Barbara!

See what I mean?

Doesn't matter what anyone says. You have your conclusions, and I have mine.

No, what do you mean??

The beginning of the thread is weird, Teal lied about when the pics were taken, the dog already didn't look so great, the next photos of the dog from the breeder were time stamped to when the breeder would've gotten him, the breeder supplied dated vet records...

What is your conclusion? I'm not angry, not particularly invested in this and im sincerely asking you what you make of the aforementioned series of events?? Because from where I'm standing all evidence points in one direction.

[Barbara!]

Originally Posted by Barbara!

No. I know Teal would never intentionally do this to an animal.

Do I think this is proof that Teal is responsible for the condition of the dog? No. The vet records don't exactly tell us anything we didn't already know... That the dog was emaciated. However, it does say right there, that the cause of the emaciation could very well be from stress.

My conclusion is maybe the dog felt bereft... Dogs know when you don't like them. And the stress caused his weight loss. Do I think Teal STARVED the dog? No, no I do not. But it doesn't take long for a lean puppy to get dangerously skinny...especially a lean, stressed out puppy that may or may not have been refusing food when with Teal.

That's my personal conclusion. I also don't think Teal will come back here... I wouldn't, either. No matter what she says, it won't matter. No one will believe that she doesn't "recycle" dogs or purposely abuse them. Most of you seem to already feel that other breeders should avoid selling her puppies. It's sad that is came down this way.

There is no PROOF. Is there evidence that leans more one way and not the other? Yes, but there is no PROOF. Proof is when you can say, as fact, that Teal abused this dog. All of what we have here is speculation. The only people who KNOW what happened are Teal and the breeder.

Let me repost it.

[Linds]

Originally Posted by Barbara!

I have already explained what I think happened.

But, your explanation doesn't actually explain anything. It doesn't address the lies or the inconsistencies. It also doesn't explain how the puppy was allowed to get to that condition even if it wasn't on purpose, which I don't think it was. Either by forgetfulness, unwillingness to deal with him or him doing it to himself he was still in her care and needed to be fed one way or another.

[~Jessie~]

Originally Posted by Barbara!

I have already explained what I think happened.

You didn't explain anything.

Jairi said the dog looked fine when he left her house... then she posted the pictures from "2 days before" which were really from 19 days before.

All evidence points to Jairi lying. The dog was picked up from her home in emaciated condition, yet Jairi thought the dog looked fine when she handed him off to Dianna.

Who knows if Jairi couldn't afford dog food and thus neglected the dog. Who knows if she just put him in a room and forgot to take care of him. Who knows if she was just ignoring the problem and not paying attention.

Either way, the dog was neglected and all evidence points to it being while in Jairi's care.

[yoko]

Originally Posted by sassafras

What in the world kind of proof would it take to convince you?

I wouldn't bother there is no proof she would accept.

Originally Posted by Danefied

Am I the only one who would like to hear from Teal? Even if its just admission of guilt? You know... first step is admitting you have a problem type thing?
And honestly, there could be an explanation that hasn't occured to any of us because we're so blinded by anger (understandably) at seeing the pup in that condition.

I'll probably be jumped by her supporters for this but I don't care. I honestly wouldn't believe any story she said now because IMO it would only be a save face statement. She lied and tried to hide info on when pics were taken and has refused to post decent pics of when the dog was with her right before the breeder took him back and has refused vet info which would at least show she was making sure he was getting care.

She can say all she wants but after all the lies and attempts to hide info I wouldn't believe or trust her farther than I could throw her.

[release the hounds]

Originally Posted by Barbara!

WHAT, exactly, is wrong with that?

nothing is wrong with it when dogs are simply throw away when the don't tickle your particular fancy on that particular day.

I have no issues with someone looking for a dog to X and when it can't responsibly rehoming to a home it will fit better. People I know like this usually aren't going puppy routes, but they get young adults as they have a better chance of "knowing" what that dog will be when it matures.

Those that go the puppy route usually have that puppy for at least a year and keep it in good condition before rehoming. The overwhelming majority decide to work with what they have and try again next time.

It's one thing to have interest in multiple breeds, it's entirely another to act so irresponsibly and neglect one in your care because you don't like it. it's not like he was chewing her face off when she went to feed it, even then you put it behind a fence and throw food over the side till someone comes to take it away. It's called decency.