Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Discussions and Dog Talk Forums > Dogs - General Dog Chat


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #511  
Old 10-02-2012, 05:31 PM
stafinois's Avatar
stafinois stafinois is offline
Professional Nerd
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Mayberry
Posts: 1,601
Default

And, maybe she should stop getting dogs. I know several breeders who report having her contact them about upcoming litters or rehome dogs. Several different breeds at the same time, even.

I've "known" Jairi from boards since 2006 or 2007. I began to get a bit suspicious after the first big flush of dogs that she called "forever dogs" before moving to Oregon. But, she reassured us that she wouldn't get over her head again, and I hoped that it was just because she's young. But, no. She got more, and more disappeared. A year or two ago she told me that she was getting rid of everybody but Ruger and Bukra and moving to Alaska. Some of the dogs disappeared, only to have Peshamba and Zealand added. And she's asking more breeders for more. It's a neverending cycle.

She claims that she didn't get any dogs from the shelter, but she told me that Polaris and his brother were obtained from the shelter. As I mentioned before, she told me that Clairece escaped and went out a window. Now she was stolen? I remember once I asked on Facebook if she still had the trailer on her parents' land. She deleted my comment and sent me a private admonishment that she doesn't want that to be common knowledge. I assumed that she was telling people that she owned that land herself.

I feel bad because I've been suspicious for years, but I didn't make a public announcement. I can't even remember how many dogs have come and gone, but it's a ridiculously high number. A few cats, too. And, the all of the tarantulas that died because they were kept in an unheated trailer. But, would getting this out there stop anything? Probably not, as there will always be some trashy breeder willing to sell. But, maybe responsible breeders will actually listen and decline. And, maybe having this out there will encourage Jairi to not dump this batch just to prove us all wrong. For the sake of the animals, I hope that's what happens.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #512  
Old 10-02-2012, 05:34 PM
Danefied's Avatar
Danefied Danefied is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Southeast
Posts: 1,722
Default

I have a hard time judging a dogís condition from pictures. Unless the light is just right, its hard to really *see* a dogís condition.

The difference between this:


And this:


Is over 40 pounds. And this is a SMALL dane. Lunar is just barely 32 inches.
And at the above weight, you can easily see 3 or 4 ribs on him, and his hip bones are still right there, right under his skin (granted his rear end conformation isnít the best either), but still, heís most certainly not at all fat with those 40 pounds added on.
In the too thin shots you canít see much of his vertebrae. On that fila pup you can see his spine very clearly.

My point is, if the picture is enough for me to gasp a little when I see it, that to me says the dog is in pretty bad shape.
__________________
"We become better trainers by refusing to swallow uncritically what is tossed to us as truth,
by developing our powers of empathy and observation,
and by searching for better ways to teach and educate the dogs we love."
~Suzanne Clothier
Reply With Quote
  #513  
Old 10-02-2012, 05:34 PM
Red Chrome's Avatar
Red Chrome Red Chrome is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,565
Default

I understand skinny dogs. Judge is horrible to keep weight on but I do it and have done it. There have been times in his life when he was skinnier than other but always looks healthy and has always had a healthy look to his eyes. Much the same as Sloan in her puppy pictures.
__________________
Osyrius SilverChrome GTOVonMarionHaus-OFA H/E DM Free CGC DDJ RN BH
WBBs BleauChrome Lady of TheCopa-CGC STARR Naughty RockStar
The BlackChrome Executioner VonMarionHaus-Puppy Terrorist
The OldMan Hobie-CGC Rotten Old Dog 11/14/99-01/08/2013
Talulajhs RedChrome Kahpone-CGC TT BH TDI 10/31/04-06/07/10.
Reply With Quote
  #514  
Old 10-02-2012, 05:49 PM
Red Chrome's Avatar
Red Chrome Red Chrome is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,565
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stafinois View Post
And, maybe she should stop getting dogs. I know several breeders who report having her contact them about upcoming litters or rehome dogs. Several different breeds at the same time, even.

I've "known" Jairi from boards since 2006 or 2007. I began to get a bit suspicious after the first big flush of dogs that she called "forever dogs" before moving to Oregon. But, she reassured us that she wouldn't get over her head again, and I hoped that it was just because she's young. But, no. She got more, and more disappeared. A year or two ago she told me that she was getting rid of everybody but Ruger and Bukra and moving to Alaska. Some of the dogs disappeared, only to have Peshamba and Zealand added. And she's asking more breeders for more. It's a neverending cycle.

She claims that she didn't get any dogs from the shelter, but she told me that Polaris and his brother were obtained from the shelter. As I mentioned before, she told me that Clairece escaped and went out a window. Now she was stolen? I remember once I asked on Facebook if she still had the trailer on her parents' land. She deleted my comment and sent me a private admonishment that she doesn't want that to be common knowledge. I assumed that she was telling people that she owned that land herself.

I feel bad because I've been suspicious for years, but I didn't make a public announcement. I can't even remember how many dogs have come and gone, but it's a ridiculously high number. A few cats, too. And, the all of the tarantulas that died because they were kept in an unheated trailer. But, would getting this out there stop anything? Probably not, as there will always be some trashy breeder willing to sell. But, maybe responsible breeders will actually listen and decline. And, maybe having this out there will encourage Jairi to not dump this batch just to prove us all wrong. For the sake of the animals, I hope that's what happens.
She contacted me in the same time frame that she got the Fila puppy about a GSD puppy from Judge. I let her think what she wanted too for awhile. I never had plans on placing a puppy with her due to her history with dogs. I declined her finally telling her that they were all placed. The time frame was the same time that she was getting Bullseye and was supposed to get a Magyar puppy. The Magyar breeder declined her as well until this past year after Babe(Peschamba) was returned to her due to some dog issues, then she was placed with Jairi.

To be completely honest, if I was a breeder and saw the Fila pics and she had one of my puppies, I would be getting the dogs back, no matter the condition they are in. If she can let this happen to one dog, it will/could happen to another.
__________________
Osyrius SilverChrome GTOVonMarionHaus-OFA H/E DM Free CGC DDJ RN BH
WBBs BleauChrome Lady of TheCopa-CGC STARR Naughty RockStar
The BlackChrome Executioner VonMarionHaus-Puppy Terrorist
The OldMan Hobie-CGC Rotten Old Dog 11/14/99-01/08/2013
Talulajhs RedChrome Kahpone-CGC TT BH TDI 10/31/04-06/07/10.
Reply With Quote
  #515  
Old 10-02-2012, 05:51 PM
Doberluv's Avatar
Doberluv Doberluv is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: western Wa
Posts: 21,849
Default

There's a big difference between very lean and emaciated. That puppy looks emaciated, starved in the first pictures. And in the later picture with the other dogs, he still looks awful imo. A puppy like that isn't a sight hound, so there's no comparison. His coat is wrong, his countenance and expression are wrong and he's too thin. I can see it even though he's sitting down. Sure, maybe it wasn't intentional, but it's neglect....unless there were diligent attempts through veterinary care to build that puppy back up. Obviously, there isn't any metabolic problem or he wouldn't have been fattened up at all.

It is indeed heart breaking, sickening to see an innocent animal neglected like that. It should be investigated, even though it is after the fact. Cruelty charges should be made. But the clincher is...there has to be conclusive proof. And even with all the speculation and the way things look, I think it's a waste of time other than making a smear campaign (which can actually sometimes back fire and not do what it's suppose to do...people get immune to gossip and speculation, mere rumors don't always have a lasting effect). Someone closer to the situation should systematically gather up a boat load of irrefutable evidence so that there is not one shadow of a doubt that a particular person caused this due to negligence. And then it should be handed over to the authorities for them to do their job. Or the rest of the job, as I doubt they'll go to the trouble to really delve into it.
__________________
"If you love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams 1776





"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #516  
Old 10-02-2012, 05:52 PM
Romy's Avatar
Romy Romy is offline
Taxiderpy
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 9,823
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyzelle View Post
I didn't mean to compare sighthounds all across the board. I was comparing to her dog, specifically, where I can count the vertebra, ribs, and see prominent hip bones. And it's not an uncommon thing I see, but I understand not ALL sighthounds and sighthound people feel the same on that subject.
I know you weren't. Just giving the perspective of someone with sight hounds and has dealt with a load of puppies recently.

Alyosha had a really high metabolism and would get ribby if I fed him the exact same amount of food his littermates were getting. He needed about a third more food to stay at a healthy weight. If he hadn't put it right back on, he'd have gone to the vet and been given stuff like nutrical.

Strider has gotten pretty thin from time to time, and yes you could see his vertebrae when he was being bathed. Was that okay or healthy? NO! Which is why he was stuffed with satin balls and wormed, etc. For him it turned out to be parasites, it was a problem, the problem was addressed and how he's cool again.
Reply With Quote
  #517  
Old 10-02-2012, 05:58 PM
Doberluv's Avatar
Doberluv Doberluv is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: western Wa
Posts: 21,849
Default

That's the difference Romy. You did something about it. I don't know if anything was every tried with this puppy. So sad. it sounds like he was pushed by the wayside because of who he was.

And for the record, I sometimes refer to dogs as "it" and I love dogs and all animals and am responsible with their care. I think that's generalizing and prejudice to think that because of the way someone uses words, that's an irrefuable indication of what's in their hearts. With my own dogs, since I know their names, I tend to use their names or other pronouns like him, her, he, she. But if I don't know a dog or I'm speaking generally about dogs, I might use the word, "it." Doesn't mean I don't love and respect animals.
__________________
"If you love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams 1776





"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #518  
Old 10-02-2012, 06:05 PM
Dogdragoness's Avatar
Dogdragoness Dogdragoness is offline
FINALLY warm ... YAY :D
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Gillett/San Antonio TX
Posts: 3,165
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miakoda View Post
He's a puppy. I'm not sure why people look at a 4/5 month old pup and assume that the dog will be the same at 2 years of age. Or that the dog at 2 years of age will be the same at 5 years of age.

Dogs go through stages in their maturation and development. Just because a dog is all lovey-dovey at 5 months doesn't mean that at 10 months he'll be the same. Most likely you'll have the ornery "teenager" that requires a "why should I" explanation for each and every thing.

I can't wait until I get my next Fila. It's been a long wait and a lot of having to put off dogs "now" so that I can make sure that my home is properly settled and everything is ready.

As fort solitary bathroom time, I haven't had that in a looooong time (even before my human kiddos...lol). My Rottie was determined to poke her head behind the shower curtain and watch. My Dogo would lie by the door and make sure I was safe. My Fila practically showered with me. My Cane Corso/Mastiff would be in the same room, but not necessarily wanting to be right next to me. And the APBTs....well, they just constantly stay amused at how water can come out of the wall.

I've never owned a mastiff/moloss breed that wasn't extremely devoted to me. But devotion did not equal completely dependent and soft. While my Fila wanted in my lap at rest times, my Shar Pei/Corso preferred to be in the room but not necessarily next to me unless it was his idea. My Dogo also preferred to be in the same room, but was much more of a guardian dog in that he took his place next to the door or a window for look-out duty.

Even so, I've always found that working with those dogs was more like having a two-way conversation instead of me just telling and them just listening. What I was saying had to make sense to them. Sometimes, especially with Wrigley, they thought I was wrong and continued to do things their way. It's like you could see them listening, thinking it over, and then saying "Nope. Not doing that. Kthanksbye.". One thing they were not were blind followers. My APBTs will do anything and everything I tell them to do just because it came out my mouth (or was signaled by hand). Not the others. I had to make sure that they realized I was ALWAYS the smarter one and the one in charge or else they would steal that role right out from underneath me (which happens in far too many ownership cases IMO).

So, IMO, the moral of the story is that such a young pup is just a pup trying to form a bond and figure out to whom he belongs. And IMO just because a dog shows devototion and affection, doesn't mean he's weak, soft, or lacking confidence.

Having these dogs isn't supposed to equal some cool power trip.

Get the pup back to his breeder. I can't imagine a breeder wanting a pup in a home that doesn't care for it and is outspoken in it's disdain for having to even do the basics such as feed it and take it out. I just pray that such an emotional neglect doesn't lead to problems later on. It did in my rescue girl and she was never the same. She paid the ultimate price because of how her previous owners neglected her in every way possible. These dogs have memories like elephants. They don't forget.

An owner owes a dog so much more. So very much more.


JMO as always.
LOL Buddy, my rescue ACD (who are supposed to be an independant breed) hates for me to be out of his site, i was woking on the yard & he was always nearby or laying somewhere where he could see me.... i love that in a dog, it sounds like that Fila would have fit well perfectly in my home... too bad he had to go back to his breeder, i love filas & would have taken him.

as a pup Josefina was very friendly to everyone, but now that she is come 2 yrs old, its like she is a totally different dog now. she has become very suspicious of strangers & will bark & alert me to them now.

You have a Dogo & a corso.... i hate you . i want one sooooo bd but i am also on Puppy put-off due to no job security , i tried to find a good dogo breeder here in TX that was reasonably close (i like to meet the breeder & their dogs in person) & the ones that were sent up loads of red flags to me .

there are a few really good corso breeders here tho & the more i read about them the more i love them
__________________


Reply With Quote
  #519  
Old 10-02-2012, 06:06 PM
yoko's Avatar
yoko yoko is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 5,299
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doberluv View Post
That's the difference Romy. You did something about it. I don't know if anything was every tried with this puppy. So sad. it sounds like he was pushed by the wayside because of who he was.

And for the record, I sometimes refer to dogs as "it" and I love dogs and all animals and am responsible with their care. I think that's generalizing and prejudice to think that because of the way someone uses words, that's an irrefuable indication of what's in their hearts. With my own dogs, since I know their names, I tend to use their names or other pronouns like him, her, he, she. But if I don't know a dog or I'm speaking generally about dogs, I might use the word, "it." Doesn't mean I don't love and respect animals.
I think the main thing was she was saying it while saying things like the tiniest interaction was hell.
__________________
Thank you Vivien and Angel Chicken for the siggy! Also I have been frosted!!! And as of 9/13/07 I know the secret handshake!


Reply With Quote
  #520  
Old 10-02-2012, 06:08 PM
Shakou's Avatar
Shakou Shakou is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 654
Default

I'm coming in a bit late on all this, but read through most of the thread, saw the pictures people are making a fuss over, and wanted to add a little something. My husband adopted Charlotte as a stray 5 years in Nashville, TN while hitch hiking through the area. When he first found her, she was emaciated, filthy, and covered in wounds. He got her to a vet, had her spayed, updated on all her shots, her wounds treated, and got her on a good dog food where she that she was fed twice a day.

But obviously she didn't make any grand transformations over night. For the first two weeks, my husband got a LOT of nasty, rude remarks from people while walking around with Charlotte, accusing him of neglecting her. Little did these idiots know that he had infact saved her life, and was taking extremely good care of her.

I don't know the whole situation here. 50+ posts is a lot to read in a short amount of time, but my point is things aren't always what they seem. The person should have taken the time to get to know the puppy, the breed, and the breeder a little better before taking it home, and I think she was over reacting on claiming "every interaction was hell", but to accuse them of neglect due to some pictures that were taken who knows when is a bit extreme and rude.
__________________

"Ma'ii is always out there, waiting. And Ma'ii is always hungry." - Navajo proverb

Last edited by Shakou; 10-02-2012 at 06:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:17 PM.


©1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site