Returning a dog to the breeder - Questions/Rant

[Barbara!]

Originally Posted by yoko

How about this teal puts in the effort needed to simply uncheck a box and I'll put in the effort to get the vet papers posted.

I'm not the one who has to convince anyone remember?

But yet you are condemning her for being unable to post vet records when the breeder hasn't either. No double standards here, please.

[kady05]

Does anyone else find it a little odd that the breeder waited until 14 months later (pup went back Aug. '11, it is now Oct. '12) to share this information with anyone? I know quite a few breeders, and if ANY pup of theirs was returned in that condition, they'd be blasting it all over the place.

What breeder takes that long to reply to an email? I assume the Fila community it pretty tight nit.. how did no one hear about this and say anything when it actually happened?

The whole situation is just weird. I'm not saying I'm okay with a pup ending up like that, but I don't know.. just strange that it would take so long for this info. to come out.

[Romy]

Originally Posted by Barbara!

There are no facts, there is no proof.

She didn't refuse to do anything. Her vet is 30+ minutes away, and it was 10 o clock at night. I don't really constitute that as refusal.

As I said earlier, there is just as much "proof" from the breeder as there is from Teal.

It's also been explained to her how to restore the time stamps to her photos, which hasn't been done. Nothing has been done.

The whole start of this thread is weird.

First, Teal posted asking for advice on how to contact an unresponsive breeder, but didn't post the breeder's name. She said she'd talked to the breeder on the phone a week ago and not heard anything back. Understandable if she wanted to give the breeder some privacy.

So in the interest of helping her contact the breeder (which she asked for advice on) people easily dig up breeders name and start posting her contact info. She gets upset about that.

People advise her to send snail mail notices to the breeder and she goes on with a long excuse about how she doesn't know the breeder's mailing address and has only been to her house.

People post the mailing address for her, which they found on the breeder's website listed under CONTACT INFO (seriously? how hard is it to find that when you've supposedly been desperate to make contact for a week?) OP makes a bunch more excuses.

Someone privately advises the breeder about the situation, then the breeder drives several hours to go pick up her puppy. Finds it's in awful condition. Takes photos of the awful condition (which are timestamped corresponding with the date of pickup as PROOF), takes the puppy to the vet, and then to his new home where he proceeds to gain 28 lbs over the course of the next two weeks.

Then everything is quiet until the breeder speaks up about the abuse her puppy suffered and supplies evidence of his condition.

Just looking at the beginning of the thread, it feels like Teal knew he wasn't in great shape and was trying to start something to cover her butt in case pics came out. The whole tone of the original post was "well I tried so hard to get him back to his breeder, his breeder is so unresponsive, what an irresponsible person, la la la," Notice how everybody found different options for contacting the breeder and all she does is make excuses about why and how that doesn't work for her? And how fast the breeder jumped on it and pulled the puppy when she found out?

[Red Chrome]

Originally Posted by Renee750il

Not as a vet tech, but as someone who has raised Filas and helped with rescue:

It's entirely possible that a Fila pup who has bonded would mourn and refuse to eat after being separated from their person, but it's not going to happen in a matter of a couple of days, and, honestly, they are such survivors that it's unlikely those instincts, particularly as pup, wouldn't kick in and get them eating, and, from the later photos by the breeder he's thriving now. Thankfully. There is also that Fila metabolism -- the one that enabled the breed to survive in an extremely impoverished region on far less than ideal rations for unknown generations.

Does that mean Teal purposely starved him? Not necessarily, and, frankly, that doesn't really add up for me.

It's entirely possible that he started going downhill with Teal because she did not have the bond with him and he felt emotionally rebuffed. I know it sounds nuts, but it's the truth. It's how these dogs are. They are creatures of extremes and there is nothing as important to them, even from their earliest stages, as their people. That's one of the reasons it's so important to make sure you are ready for the depth of commitment necessary when you take a Fila puppy home. What will cause another puppy frustration, but will be forgotten in a few moments will break a Fila's heart.

Is the Fila puppy in this photo way too thin? Yes. Absolutely. Is there neglect? It would appear so.

Does that mean it was done purposely, out of malice? Not necessarily. I don't know, and looking at her other dogs in the photo I have to ask why would someone purposely abuse one puppy?

And why would you take photos of the puppy you were purposely abusing/neglecting?

Why would you post openly about sending him back to the breeder if you were purposely neglecting/abusing the pup?

It does make me feel extremely sad, to think of him feeling so bereft, seeing the anxious expression on his face in that photo. The best thing that could have happened was for him to be returned to his breeder.

Good post. I do not know the breed and have very little passing knowledge of them other than they are pretty,majestic looking dogs of mastiff type.

I never once said this was done intentionally but it did happen. If a puppy was going down hill then he needed more care till he was able to go somewhere that could and did turn him around.

[Renee750il]

The Fila community is . . . odd. And is used to keeping things close to the vest. Secretive, even. It's the nature of the beast. Part of it is being extremely protective of the breed, coupled with a natural intensity and reticence. Part of it is because things can get really nasty really fast and there's always one of the fringers who wouldn't hesitate to jump up and start pointing fingers at her for placing the pup in a "bad home" to start with.

[~Jessie~]

Originally Posted by Romy

It's also been explained to her how to restore the time stamps to her photos, which hasn't been done. Nothing has been done.

The whole start of this thread is weird.

First, Teal posted asking for advice on how to contact an unresponsive breeder, but didn't post the breeder's name. She said she'd talked to the breeder on the phone a week ago and not heard anything back. Understandable if she wanted to give the breeder some privacy.

So in the interest of helping her contact the breeder (which she asked for advice on) people easily dig up breeders name and start posting her contact info. She gets upset about that.

People advise her to send snail mail notices to the breeder and she goes on with a long excuse about how she doesn't know the breeder's mailing address and has only been to her house.

People post the mailing address for her, which they found on the breeder's website listed under CONTACT INFO (seriously? how hard is it to find that when you've supposedly been desperate to make contact for a week?) OP makes a bunch more excuses.

Someone privately advises the breeder about the situation, then the breeder drives several hours to go pick up her puppy. Finds it's in awful condition. Takes photos of the awful condition (which are timestamped corresponding with the date of pickup as PROOF), takes the puppy to the vet, and then to his new home where he proceeds to gain 28 lbs over the course of the next two weeks.

Then everything is quiet until the breeder speaks up about the abuse her puppy suffered and supplies evidence of his condition.

Just looking at the beginning of the thread, it feels like Teal knew he wasn't in great shape and was trying to start something to cover her butt in case pics came out. The whole tone of the original post was "well I tried so hard to get him back to his breeder, his breeder is so unresponsive, what an irresponsible person, la la la," Notice how everybody found different options for contacting the breeder and all she does is make excuses about why and how that doesn't work for her? And how fast the breeder jumped on it and pulled the puppy when she found out?

Agreed!

[Miakoda]

Some people belong to the breed of the month club.

Look....a gamebred APBT! I need one of those! Now I'm in!!!

Wait! People are fawning over those built dual registered AST/APBTs! I gotta get me one!

A Bull Terrier? WHAT?!?! I must have one!

Wow.....Salukis are super rare! Sign me up, sista!

Dude. That's one of those fabled Filas! I'm gonna get me one, too! Hey, everybody! Look at meeeeeee!!!!!!

Hmmm....the Malinois sure seems to be the new cool talked-about breed. Hey, you! I wanna buy a puppy!

[Red Chrome]

I do know the breeder also had a major surgery too. That could explain some of the time loss.

[Red Chrome]

Originally Posted by Miakoda

Some people belong to the breed of the month club.

Look....a gamebred APBT! I need one of those! Now I'm in!!!

Wait! People are fawning over those built dual registered AST/APBTs! I gotta get me one!

A Bull Terrier? WHAT?!?! I must have one!

Wow.....Salukis are super rare! Sign me up, sista!

Dude. That's one of those fabled Filas! I'm gonna get me one, too! Hey, everybody! Look at meeeeeee!!!!!!

Hmmm....the Malinois sure seems to be the new cool talked-about breed. Hey, you! I wanna buy a puppy!

Great Post Mia!!!

[Barbara!]

Originally Posted by Miakoda

Some people belong to the breed of the month club.

Look....a gamebred APBT! I need one of those! Now I'm in!!!

Wait! People are fawning over those built dual registered AST/APBTs! I gotta get me one!

A Bull Terrier? WHAT?!?! I must have one!

Wow.....Salukis are super rare! Sign me up, sista!

Dude. That's one of those fabled Filas! I'm gonna get me one, too! Hey, everybody! Look at meeeeeee!!!!!!

Hmmm....the Malinois sure seems to be the new cool talked-about breed. Hey, you! I wanna buy a puppy!

OH LOOK,

A completely off topic post attacking Teal personally. Totally productive and it totally proves your point!