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  #461  
Old 10-02-2012, 01:17 PM
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Pictures are pretty damning. The pictures tell the story line.

It just takes using a little common sense. What would the breeder gain from posting this?
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  #462  
Old 10-02-2012, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by yoko View Post
Inability to produce a healthy looking pic from that time, refusal to post vet records, and refusal to do something as simple as unselecting a box on a website is honestly enough proof for me.

Do those things and maybe I'll change my mind but right now looks more like someone doesn't want the facts known.
There are no facts, there is no proof.

She didn't refuse to do anything. Her vet is 30+ minutes away, and it was 10 o clock at night. I don't really constitute that as refusal.

As I said earlier, there is just as much "proof" from the breeder as there is from Teal.
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  #463  
Old 10-02-2012, 01:18 PM
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Well FWIW I don't think it was done maliciously, either. But neglect doesn't have to be malicious. In fact, more often than not I think neglect isn't malicious but more of a "path of least resistance" kind of thing until bad becomes normal. And allowing a puppy to get into that condition is neglect in my book.
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  #464  
Old 10-02-2012, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by sassafras View Post
Well FWIW I don't think it was done maliciously, either. But neglect doesn't have to be malicious. In fact, more often than not I think neglect isn't malicious but more of a "path of least resistance" kind of thing until bad becomes normal. And allowing a puppy to get into that condition is neglect in my book.
Agreed.
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  #465  
Old 10-02-2012, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Barbara! View Post
There are no facts, there is no proof.

She didn't refuse to do anything. Her vet is 30+ minutes away, and it was 10 o clock at night. I don't really constitute that as refusal.

As I said earlier, there is just as much "proof" from the breeder as there is from Teal.
Teal wont do whats necessary to show the time date for one. The puppy doesnt look healthy in those pictures. EXIF data does not get faked (at least that I have ever heard of) and to top it off a PUPPY cant fake its age. ESPECIALLY a large breed.
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  #466  
Old 10-02-2012, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Barbara! View Post
There are no facts, there is no proof.

She didn't refuse to do anything. Her vet is 30+ minutes away, and it was 10 o clock at night. I don't really constitute that as refusal.

As I said earlier, there is just as much "proof" from the breeder as there is from Teal.
The breeder has pics of the dog and vet records. I'm sorry I'm not super record keeper but I have all the vet records for both of my dogs. Even if I lost them I could email over for more copies.

So while you jumped in this thread convinced teal did nothing wrong, for me based on the fact that they can't even provide a single pic when the breeder has pics with the date info and vet records which teal continues to refuse to produce I totally am on the breeders side right now.
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  #467  
Old 10-02-2012, 01:29 PM
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Where are these vet records? I haven't seen any. And once again, Teal did not refuse to produce anything. That logic makes no sense. My vet office is closed in the middle of the night...idk about yours.
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  #468  
Old 10-02-2012, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Teal View Post

I am doing my best to give the dog at least basic care - but without giving the full details on the dog it's tough to explain just how hard it is to do anything with this animal. There is a very certain type of dog that works in my household and with my personality/methods of training - this dog, is the EXACT opposite and even the smallest interactions with it are hell because the dog fundamentally does not "get it." But, I'm trying
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Originally Posted by Teal View Post


For the record - I have no problem with the Fila-side of the temperament of this dog. That is not my issue with him. He is actually an incredibly sweet, responsive puppy. In fact - he is beyond sweet and responsive. He is incredibly soft (temperament wise) with me. For those of you who apparently know me OH SO WELL - you know that I don't work well with soft-temperament dogs. I didn't comprehend the degree of softness Filas have with their owners, having never owned one and only seeing Filas from the "I'm a stranger" side of it. So excuse the hell out of me for recognizing that the dog is not a proper fit for me and my home, and trying to do the responsible thing by returning it to its breeder
I don't think the neglect was done maliciously. Reading Teal's posts in the beginning of this thread show she wanted nothing to do with the dog, though. She referred to him as "it." She mentioned it was "tough" to give the dog basic care (basic care, to me, means food and water at the very least). Judging by the pictures from both parties (Teal's shots from 2 days before Dianna took him, and Dianna's shots from the day she took him), the puppy looked emanciated.

I've looked at Dianna's photos from the day the puppy went to live with Teal, and there is a night and day difference in that puppy's appearance. He had a shiny coat, bright eyes, puppy fat, etc. Since Dianna said the puppy gained 28lbs in the 2 weeks after she retrieved him from Teal (and the updated pictures from Dianna do not show an overweight dog), it's quite obvious that dog was being starved.

Most often, neglect ISN'T done on purpose. Look at all of the people who get in over their heads by rescuing pets- just turn on Animal Planet and watch Animal Hoarders and you'll see how much these people "love" their pets. There was a woman who gave up her HOME for her 150 rabbits. She lived in a camper in the backyard because the rabbits took over her house. The home was disgusting, the roof leaked, there wasn't any power, and those poor rabbits were living in squalor. And she REFUSED to rehome any of them because she was giving them such a wonderful life.
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  #469  
Old 10-02-2012, 01:31 PM
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How about this teal puts in the effort needed to simply uncheck a box and I'll put in the effort to get the vet papers posted.

I'm not the one who has to convince anyone remember?
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  #470  
Old 10-02-2012, 01:32 PM
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Well, wow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linds View Post
Most people in this thread have been sitting here waiting to hear something that proves that she didn't do this. There has been digging by people here to try and find the truth but so far Teal has done nothing, at least from what I've seen to make me find fault in what has been presented by Red Chrome.

It makes no sense to me and Teal hasn't been very forthcoming with a logical explanation for why this puppy looks like this the day he went back to the breeder. She says she doesn't know why he looks like that in those pictures but honestly, that really isn't convincing to me nor is enough. Neither has the attitude she has for the puppy. I don't think I remember her even calling him by name in this thread yet and I'll be honest, while that's purely emotional on my part I find it pretty telling.

I'm willing to be first in line to apologize if it proves to be fabricated. But so far I'm not seeing much that says it is.
I am having a similar emotional response as you. There seems to be some sort of disgust directed at this puppy. How on earth could any interaction with that lovely boy be "hell?" Not to mention the frequent references to him as an "it."

I am loath to accuse someone of starving their dog, and Teal's dogs have always looked fantastic to me in photos. Except this puppy. I guess I'm also sensitive to it, because when Fable was sick she got very, very skinny, and I had someone I've known almost my entire life angrily asking if I fed her. That hurt.

But I don't see any reason for the breeder to lie about receiving the dog from Teal in this condition.
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