What do you think Joey has in him?

[AdrianneIsabel]

Sorry Amber, I think he's close enough to pure and if I were his owner I would AKC him as such and stop considering him a mix. Otherwise I'd presume he's a common mix associated with Ibizans. Azawakh are a bit obscure.

[Laurelin]

Heck I know several 20 lb papillons. That's pretty far out of standard

[GoingNowhere]

Honestly, he looks like an ibizan to me. I'd go so far as to say that he looks closer to standard than the vast majority of rescue purebreds I see around (comparing each dog to their own standards of course).

If I were you, I'd be sending in a form from here:
http://www.akc.org/reg/ilpex.cfm

and coursing with him. Because in the end, even if he's *not* entirely purebred, if he enjoys it and you enjoy it and he was sold to you as a purebred, then who is it really hurting?


Anyone who would be so bothered by you having fun with your dog should find something better to do with their time than complain about a well loved, well exercised dog.

As a sidenote, I just love him and want to meet him!

[SizzleDog]

Originally Posted by Romy

Azawakh really don't have roaching. Many have high slung fila butts and many are flat backed. I think what makes Joey's legs seem long is that he's shorter in the loin than the standard calls for. Also, his head is on the opposite end of the extreme from what azawakh would have contributed.

I agree with this, at least regarding the Azwakh comments. I've been fortunate enough to meet and interact with several (THANK YOU UKC!) and if Joey had Azawakh in him, I'd probably ask around to see if someone had slipped something in my drink.

I do see Podengo in his face. (I've been lucky enough to spend a lot of time with all three sizes of Podengos as well - again THANK YOU UKC!) and if he has anything in him other than Ibizan.... I'd put my money on Podengo.

BUT - from the admittedly limited knowledge I have of the history of Podengos in the United States, I'd be skeptical that a medio or grande got into "the wrong hands" in the first place. The Podengo people I know are insanely protective of their breed - much like the Ibizan folks - so I just don't easily see one ending up in a situation where it would be purposefully bred to an Ibizan.

Granted, all the Podengo/Ibizan people I know are in the northern half of the country - I don't know anyone down in the Florida area. *shrug*

Now, I am hesitant to tell the Ibizan people that they don't know their own breed. Heck, when people who are not in my breed try to tell me they know Dobermans better than I do... I feel a bit insulted! So I'm not touching that with a 10ft pole.

Bottom line.... if AKC accepts him as a purebred Ibizan, he'll have a fun time coursing and I wish you all the best. If AKC won't accept him as a purebred Ibizan.... don't worry, come hang out with us CAT people. We're a fun bunch, even if some people don't want us around.

[SaraB]

Originally Posted by SizzleDog

Bottom line.... if AKC accepts him as a purebred Ibizan, he'll have a fun time coursing and I wish you all the best. If AKC won't accept him as a purebred Ibizan.... don't worry, come hang out with us CAT people.

This. Anyone who gets offended by you participating in a sport your dog was bred for (even if he was a mix of some other sighthound), they have waaaay too much time on their hands. I say go for it.

[skittledoo]

Originally Posted by GoingNowhere

As a sidenote, I just love him and want to meet him!

You definitely have to soon!

Originally Posted by SizzleDog

Now, I am hesitant to tell the Ibizan people that they don't know their own breed. Heck, when people who are not in my breed try to tell me they know Dobermans better than I do... I feel a bit insulted! So I'm not touching that with a 10ft pole.

This is about how I feel on that matter.

[Gazehounds]

I would try to ILP him and see what AKC says. Just explain on the form that the previous owners said he was purebred and that he came from a breeder and leave it at that. Honestly, his dark eyes, pigment, and stop look "off" to me but anomalies happen so who knows? I know that none of that matters to you because he is a much-loved dream come true. We have Beezers and I showed pictures of him to my husband and he thought that Joey was a purebred but asked about his eyes. He's a very handsome dog and certainly has a bunch of Beezer traits. He obviously looked enough Ibizan for rescue to step up. He's well within standard size as well.

The roach in his back could be crate related but it could also be related to a lack of muscle tone. A friend's Beezer (now a CH and on his way to his GCH) had a roached back when she got him and once she got him into coursing shape his back evened out and the roach was gone. He just needed better conditioning.

[momto8]

[QUOTE=SaraB;2072557]This. Anyone who gets offended by you participating in a sport your dog was bred for (even if he was a mix of some other sighthound), they have waaaay too much time on their hands. I say go for it.[/QUOUTE]

I agree 100% with this! If AKC won't accept him then do CAT, CAT is still fun, you still get titles and it seems to becoming more and more popular! I love watching the CAT runs

[Dekka]

I don't think its a matter of knowing a breed. But knowing what the genetics do in a badly bred version of your breed. JRTs arent' supposed to have red noses but it happens. They aren't supposed to be brindle, that happens too. These are pointed out as not allowed BECAUSE they happen. If they didn't happen there wouldn't need to be rule for DQ. Why mention that something is a DQ if it never happens?

If its mainly the nose I just wanted to know what the genes were in creating a darker nose yet of the correct colour. If that is genetically possible (which it sounds like it is via another poster) then there is no reason this couldn't be a purebred dog. Good breeders wouldn't have to deal with this issue so may be unfamiliar with it simply because they ARE good breeders.

As to the beezer community knowing each and every dog. Then why don't the dogs in rescue all go back to their breeders? Why would you need breed rescue? How did this dog get bred then, as he is at least half if not more beezer....? Someone had to breed their dog. AND it should be simple to pinpoint the person as the breeds suggested as mixes are very rare. Those breeds are also less likely to have random breeders too.


But if the beezer community is so sure he is mixed and they know far more than anyone else about what beezers look like when mixed (though this must almost never happen if they are as careful as Momto8 has implied) why ask us?

All I see is a very handsome dog that to me looks more like the breed standard than many a purebred of other breeds look like theirs.

[YodelDogs]

I have shown dogs for 2 decades and I'm going to put in my 2 cents about conformation. I do not think Joey truly has a roached back. Any dog can roach up if they are standing with the hind legs too far up under them. Unfortunately, I can't put my hands on Joey and feel his spine myself so I have to go only on the photos provided.

From a show standpoint, Joey does have a bad topline. He has a slight dip behind his withers and too much slope in the croup. This gives the appearance of a roached back. I believe that I could stack Joey in a show pose and get that back leveled out. Skittledoo, didn't you say something one time about visiting Georgia? If you do, perhaps we could meet up and I could try to stack him and see what happens.

Joey has numerous conformation flaws but I think he is probably a purebred from a BYB. I would try to get a PAL from AKC. A dog does not have to be a top quality dog to get a PAL and I see no reason why he would be declined.