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Old 02-12-2005, 08:16 PM
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CreatureTeacher CreatureTeacher is offline
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Default Question for Mordy

Mordy,

I'm really enjoying looking over your website, but I can't find a bio for you. I was curious to know what education you had in canine nutrition...? This is something I really want to get into, but I don't know where to go to learn it!
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Old 02-13-2005, 07:15 AM
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Mordy Mordy is offline
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there isn't really a bio because i'm not a professional, emma.

i began my research on pet food a little over 4 years ago and shortly after that my interest branched out into canine nutrition in general, not just related to commercial products. so i started buying many nutrition related books, some of which are used as text books for nutrition at vet schools. very soon it became apparent to me that there is a big gap between what industry-sponsored lectures teach vet students and what realy applies to carnivorous animals. very interesting to say the least.

i do not have any professional certification in canine nutrition (yet, but am planning on pursuing that when i can afford to set aside the time), but dietetics for humans was part of my 2 1/2 year professional training.
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Old 02-13-2005, 06:28 PM
Scott LP Scott LP is offline
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Default Suggestion for Mordy

Since this post is aimed at Mordy i'd like to make a suggestion about your web site. While I was looking over different foods and especially at the calories listed I'd like to suggest making the companies give you metabolized calories for there different flavors. Those are gross calories and not Metabolized Energy calories. Gross calories are very miss leading and don't tell you what the total diet has to really offer. Not all calories are created equal as I've said before in another post. I'll use Eagles Power pack for example because I'm very familar with it. Eagles Power Pack 30/20 is accurate at 376.6 ME kcals an 8 oz. cup not 471 I think it was. 471 is the gross calorie not the Metabolized Energy calories. At one time when Power pack was called Stress Pack it had an ME of over 400.

That web site is awesome and being your interested in giving the best possible information I'd thought I'd pass that tid bit along so folks doing research on different foods get alittle more accurate details about there favorite foods. These are also questions you should be asking when anyone is talking to these campanies. Another way to determine what a food is all about and what companies really don't want you to know is the break down of the food. How much of the total diet is Protien%-Fat %-Carb %-and how much ash is left after cooking. Different cooking methods, more state of the art flash or sterlization cooking have considerbly cut down ash counts.
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Old 02-13-2005, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
While I was looking over different foods and especially at the calories listed I'd like to suggest making the companies give you metabolized calories for there different flavors. [snip]
with the exceptions of very few products, what you see are caloric contents expressed in ME, at least as far as you'll be able to trust the manufacturers to provide accurate information. unfortunately ther eisn't much i can do when i am provided with inaccurate details. my first source is the manufacturer website, if the information isn't available there, i call or email.

taking specifically your eagle pack brand example, i am still waiting to hear back from them about the discrepancies between what is listed on their website and in their new brochure, but the brochure expressly states caloric content expressed as ME, not GE.

and yes, i'm aware of the differences, as you can see on this site under "calorie statement".

Quote:
Another way to determine what a food is all about and what companies really don't want you to know is the break down of the food. How much of the total diet is Protien%-Fat %-Carb %-and how much ash is left after cooking. Different cooking methods, more state of the art flash or sterlization cooking have considerbly cut down ash counts.
yes, it's important to know the composition of the diet in as much detail as possible, but you are still being limited by the fact that the pet food industry only takes crude protein and fat content into consideration on their guaranteed analysis label, and not the actual digestibility - the caloric content in ME reflects what is actually digestible, while the guaranteed analysis does not.

as far as ash goes - ash content is not changed in any way whatsoever by cooking. to understand why, you have to know what ash is: the inorganic (i.e. mineral) portion of foods, made up of calcium, phosphorus, sodium, potassium, magnesium, manganese and other micro and macro minerals. minerals are not destroyed or altered by heat.

the descriptive term "ash" came about from proximate analysis: measured samples of food burned under laboratory conditions and the resulting ash being analyzed for its constituents. to illustrate an example, take a pound of meat and burn it until all that is left is a finely powdered ash. then do the same to a pound of bones, or for simplicity's sake, bone meal.

it happens to be the case that meat protein is overall higher in ash than plant protein, and of course bones and cartilage are higher in ash content than for example muscle meat. in a processed product like for example rendered meat meals (chicken meal, lamb meal etc.) it makes a difference if (a) the entire, dressed carcass is used, which means meat and bones in a natural ratio or (b) the meal is rendered from pieces of carcasses and/or byproducts, which have a higher content of ash-containing parts. this is why gluten of various sorts are often used to increase protein content while decreasing ash content, because otherwise it's simply not possible - you can't lower ash without also lowering meat content along with it.
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Old 02-13-2005, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CreatureTeacher
In my opinion, that's the best way to learn things--on your own! What kind of certification is available, and where do you go to get it?
there are several ways of pursuing the goal, but you have to be aware that not all of them really offer a desirable outcome. for example, what good does it do you if you get certified by a body like the "American College of Veterinary Nutrition", when their education is based on research funded by one pet food company or another?

then there is an online place that will give you some bogus title if you pay them about $800 and complete an online course. i can tell you right away that you will learn more than they can teach you if you spend those $800 on a few good books.

your best bet is probably getting certified in animal health care and taking lots of classes on nutrition (human as well, since the basics are the same), parasitology and similar topics, and from there on do your own research.
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