Let's talk Cardis

[SizzleDog]

Originally Posted by Aleron

Well, corgis aren't for everyone

Really though, I'm not sure that stuff is really "incorrect temperament" for the Corgi breeds.

I was referring to instability - inappropriate aggression towards other animals and people specifically. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

[Laurelin]

Originally Posted by PWCorgi

Laur, were you at one point looking at Icelandic Sheepdogs?
The last agility tournament I was at, the owner of the above corgis that I <3 was working with a friend's Icelandic Sheepdogs about being a butthead when their owner was in the ring with another dog. She said she would NEVER own one because "They bark all the time and shed too much...and I have CORGIS!"

Umm, kind of not really. More of a passing 'oh that breed looks neat!' kind of thing. I thought about them as an alternative to a sheltie but I'm just not feeling it to be honest.

*wanders off to read the other replies*

[~WelshStump~]

Originally Posted by Aleron

Well, corgis aren't for everyone

Really though, I'm not sure that stuff is really "incorrect temperament" for the Corgi breeds. Just because it's a trait you don't enjoy doesn't mean it isn't part of the breed. They are such old breeds that it is really hard to know what the original dogs may have been like and how different the two breeds were before they were interbred in more more times. There certainly are temperament differences between them but there similarities as well. There was also a lot of outcrossing, even if fairly modern times to other breeds. What we do know is that they are very small dogs bred to move very large animals. From that, we can assume they have always been quite bossy, forceful and tend to be unwilling to back down. Also that they are very sensitive to and aware of pressure, movement and perceived threats. Those traits are admirable in a cattle dog but can translate to being guard-y, reactive and overbearing towards other household animals...or humans in some cases.

Personally if I had a dog that had escalating food aggression towards my other dogs, I'd be sure they had a place they could eat undisturbed by other dogs. For the sake of everyone involved. Ziggy has a tendency to be resource guardy over food with other dogs. He's much better now that he's older because he knows the other dogs aren't allowed to try to take food from him. At this point he minds his own business and eats his dinner unless another dog comes right up to him, which I try to make sure doesn't happen. If it didn't work that way and he had gotten worse, he'd just eat outside by himself or in a crate.

Same with being protective of his space with the other dogs, it usually isn't an issue unless the dog is really invading his space. I say he didn't like Savvy until he was over a year old but it was a pretty superficial dislike. It wasn't like they had to be kept apart or anything, just that Savvy wanted to be friends and Ziggy thought Savvy was stupid. The above picture cracks me up every time I see it because Ziggy looks so devilish and Savvy looks so happy-happy-happy and oblivious. That is sorta how their relationship went for the first year LOL.

Maybe I've lived with quirky, obsessive, weird herding breeds for so long that I think it takes a lot to surprise me behavior-wise. I look at stuff like superficial resource guarding between dogs, dogs getting cranky over space or sleeping spots and what not to be fairly normal dog interactions. When we got Ziggy we were warned by a local Cardi enthusiast that all of her dogs pretty much are fed separately because they all tend towards wanting to guard their dinner. Not really an issue for us, RGing tends to be a fairly common thing with Belgians too so I have had a lot of experience with it.

And it's VERY obvious you've never owned a "bad" Corgi before. You don't know squat until you've been near a dog like this. SNOTTY is the word I've been looking for, He goes beyond and over snarky, Snotty, Snotty, Snot, he is.

He's just down right BAD with other dogs, AND people. Just this morning he was getting nasty with my mother, obviously he hadn't been given enough to eat for dinner, all she did was walking into the kitchen and off he went "ERRRR! ERRRR! ERR!" and I'm NOT talking about the Corgi grumble either, he does that when he feels you haven't given him enough attention, this is down right demanding. Don't get me wrong he IS mostly talk, not saying he wouldn't lash out, he has, but it's this nasty talk that got his a!! in trouble, more than once.

It just comes down to this in the end period, SEE BOTH PARENTS, no matter what kind of breeder you go to, if you can't have personal time with both parents or know someone who has seen the sire, just don't go there. And I'm saying this from both breeds, and any really, as it's beyond obvious Enda as well is more her sire than anything too.


And I do NOT allow resource guarding in my house! He**, he actually moves aside and lets Noods take over his food bowl once he's finished, they all eat separate, the boys opposite ends of the kitchen, Enda in another room with the door shut because she doesn't always eat all her food or even any of it.

Originally Posted by Emily

I would say that she’s less snarky than what Welsh Stump describes in her dog. Snark is reserved for when she deems it necessary. Like strange dogs who won’t respect her space, etc. Honestly, I don’t know that she’s any snarkier than many BC’s tend to be.

Yes, I had to stop taking him out to "dog" places because he finally got to the point where he would start snarling at dogs from several feet away.

Originally Posted by SizzleDog

I was referring to instability - inappropriate aggression towards other animals and people specifically. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

^^^ EXACTLY! And my brother wears the scars to prove it (although bro started that one).

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NO I'm not stating to change the temperaments, I already read your forums bash-all on the user who was breeding meek tempered show pets years ago , you need not throw those pi** stones at me, save them for the real ruiners of the breed. There are many quality's of Jinj I couldn't live without, he's BOLD, Eager, Brave, Solid, and also an awesome herder! as well as mouse hunter. But, if I wanted the fight picker temper of a terrier, I would have gotten a terrier, and his temper even goes beyond that, he's more stereo type Pit bull than any Pit bull I've met! THIS! Is what we don't need, it's a fine balance to get all the other right quality's sure, but a livable temperament is a must. Period.

[SizzleDog]

Originally Posted by ~WelshStump~

^^^ EXACTLY! And my brother wears the scars to prove it (although bro started that one).

----
NO I'm not stating to change the temperaments, I already read your forums bash-all on the user who was breeding meek tempered show pets years ago , you need not throw those pi** stones at me, save them for the real ruiners of the breed. There are many quality's of Jinj I couldn't live without, he's BOLD, Eager, Brave, Solid, and also an awesome herder! as well as mouse hunter. But, if I wanted the fight picker temper of a terrier, I would have gotten a terrier, and his temper even goes beyond that, he's more stereo type Pit bull than any Pit bull I've met! THIS! Is what we don't need, it's a fine balance to get all the other right quality's sure, but a livable temperament is a must. Period.

YES!!!!

Pembrokes aren't supposed to be dogs that cannot coexist with other dogs. Pembrokes aren't supposed to be the type of dog you have to tiptoe around because they'd bite you as soon as look at you. That's not correct. Pembrokes can have all the **** and vinegar they're famous for without being dangerous.

[~WelshStump~]

Originally Posted by SizzleDog

YES!!!!

Pembrokes aren't supposed to be dogs that cannot coexist with other dogs. Pembrokes aren't supposed to be the type of dog you have to tiptoe around because they'd bite you as soon as look at you. That's not correct. Pembrokes can have all the **** and vinegar they're famous for without being dangerous.

You have no idea how happy I am to have someone else out there that knows what I've been through ! He is beyond so much better today through careful management, and simply old age (and possibly as well from having a bitch in the house who will kick his ***, and has), but it's been a long road, and it's one I hope to never go down again, and maybe someday I will be able to help others walk the best path too.

Oh, and Revy is so darn cute! <3 her!

[Keechak]

There is a local breeder of Cardis that I know well. Their dogs are amazing little agility dogs, not quite as bulky as many of the show cardis, they have several MACH dogs that they own and at least one of their dog's has multiple MACH's. Their dogs remind me very much of short-legged ACD's full to the brim with attitude, drive, and spit. I love almost every thing about Cardi's in general, the only thing I don't like are the common fiddle front legs I see which aren't very sound for a sport or working dog. Luckily the dogs from the breeder I know don't have as extreme a fiddle front as most Cardi's. And I do like how they appear more rugged (to me) than Pemmies.

[Taqroy]

Originally Posted by Emily

On that vein, she’s weirdly independent and yet somehow handler focused. Hard to explain, honestly. You get the feeling she could take care of herself without anybody’s help, but she’s very responsive to my voice and aware of where I am. The other day I caught her waiting outside the bathroom door while I showered and I was like, “*gasp* Keeva… were you… waiting for me?!” and I swear she was like, “Well, ok now, don’t get any ideas! I was just… making sure you didn’t drown in there.”

Well SOMEONE has to tend to her every need! We can't have the minions drowning.


FG - would you mind pm'ing me the breeder of your girls? I freaking adore them and someday I will have a Cardi so I need to obsess over breeders for the next five years or so.

[Emily]

Originally Posted by Keechak

There is a local breeder of Cardis that I know well. Their dogs are amazing little agility dogs, not quite as bulky as many of the show cardis, they have several MACH dogs that they own and at least one of their dog's has multiple MACH's. Their dogs remind me very much of short-legged ACD's full to the brim with attitude, drive, and spit. I love almost every thing about Cardi's in general, the only thing I don't like are the common fiddle front legs I see which aren't very sound for a sport or working dog. Luckily the dogs from the breeder I know don't have as extreme a fiddle front as most Cardi's. And I do like how they appear more rugged (to me) than Pemmies.

I'm pretty sure I know which breeder you're talking about. I really like their dogs, and their dogs are consistently ranked in the breed for agility.

As for the hallmark bowed front of the breed, it has actually been present since long before Cardigans were bred primarily for show. In fact, it was one of the features that helped breed enthusiasts sort the dogs from Pembrokeshire vs the dogs from Cardiganshire. So it was a feature of the working Cardigan for years (probably thousands ) before they were brought into the showring. Like it or not, it is truly a hallmark of the breed.

That said, I agree it's not something you typically regard as sound, and MANY Cardis have had the bowed front exaggerated beyond reason. Just like they've had their dwarfism exaggerated beyond reason. But most conformation breeds are selecting for extremes (by their own admission) vs. moderation, and that is where the trouble lies IMO.

[Raegan]

Originally Posted by Laurelin

These cardis are all sports dogs and they look like a lot of fun. Very tug and toy motivated, very 'up' kinds of dogs that always seem to be having tons of fun when they're training. They strike me as happy goofballs and unlike some breeds that seem to work to work, they work to have fun. They're not super fast like the dogs I tend to go for though, which I'm sure is more an issue of leg length than anything else. They're surely not slow dogs by any means though.

You need to meet some freaking Tollers already, kthnxbye