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  #11  
Old 09-14-2012, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Pops2 View Post
houla or BMC would fit pretty well but they are really smart & require extra effort to make sure they are well trained & obedient. and if you want a little smaller the lacy cur dogs. big plus most people won't know what the bmc or the lacy are and will assume labX & weimX. ETA you're in a good place for mt curs too although they are very hunt driven nowadays.
That's definitely true for a lacy. Everyone thought mine was a weim or dobe mix. Some thought pit because he was grey
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  #12  
Old 09-14-2012, 12:58 PM
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An adult wirehaired pointing griffon would probably work. I don't know if Charlie was typical of puppies, but he had almost NO off switch. A month before he turned two his brain came together though, and he was really, really fun and lovely to live with. He could swim in the ocean and run up and down waterfalls and through hard brush literally for hours, or he could chill in the house. As long as he got an hour or two of hard running in he was good at that point.

The only animals he wasn't safe with at home were birds. Everything else, the flying squirrel, chinchillas, cat, dogs, cattle, he was awesome with. He was best friends with Diego the bull.

He was 55 lbs. grown. Wire coated, but it's thick short and dense. He barely shed, we just raked out his undercoat once every two weeks to get dead stuff out. They come in roan with a red head, and solid red (chocolate lab color).
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  #13  
Old 09-14-2012, 01:23 PM
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Vizsla?
^^ seconded

I love Vizslas.

I wouldn't recommend a FCR if slime is a problem. While the ones I've met don't necessarily drool like a mastiff, they slime their toys and people and just generally foam when they're being nutcases running around. Kaleb's slime inflicts some allergic reactions as well on people that aren't allergic to dogs normally.
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  #14  
Old 09-14-2012, 01:43 PM
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I haven't really considered sighthounds much due to always viewing them as somewhat...sensitive? Shy? That and the fact that hound + off lead doesn't normally belong in the same sentence. Most of the retired racers I've met are lovely dogs, just not my cup of tea. The only Whippet I ever met I...strongly disliked. But she was dumber than a box of rocks and paid no attention to any cues you gave, ever. I'd love to meet a more proper Whippet.

I haven't ever met a Viszla, so I can't say I know much about them. Just from doing some reading, it seems as if they are rather soft, clingy dogs as well? Or that could have just been the one opinion. I already have one soft, clingy dog, don't really care for another. Lol

I have thought about Tollers. I'm still interested, but the vibe I seem to get from what I read about them is that they are very...herder-esque? Which isn't necessarily a bad thing because I enjoy Chloe and she's an Aussie/Collie mix, but I'm not sure if that sharpness that I tend to associate with herding dogs is what I want. Again, I think it would help if I had actually met a Toller.

And yes, slime is an issue, unfortunately. *sigh* Mike breaks out when he is slobbered on. Even playing ball with Seabees, he'd have to wash his hands afterwards due to the spit.

And thanks for the breeder suggestion! I'll have to look her up.
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  #15  
Old 09-14-2012, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by *blackrose View Post
I have thought about Tollers. I'm still interested, but the vibe I seem to get from what I read about them is that they are very...herder-esque? Which isn't necessarily a bad thing because I enjoy Chloe and she's an Aussie/Collie mix, but I'm not sure if that sharpness that I tend to associate with herding dogs is what I want. Again, I think it would help if I had actually met a Toller.
I wouldn't really say they're like herders at all. The whole reason I want a herding breed is because I desperately miss all the herding breed traits that I had in my Toller/Border Collie mix. While Dance may not be 100% typical of all Tollers, she's not very comparable to most herding breeds I've been around. The closest I could compare a Toller to would be a (conformation line) Aussie. But even then, a Toller is most definitely still a sporting breed and that is what puts off people who are thinking about a Toller but really have their heart set on a herding breed (usually a Border Collie).

That probably doesn't even make sense. It's something that's hard to explain in words on the internet, but it's pretty obvious (I think) when you get a chance to spend time with Tollers and a herding breed of choice. They're drivey, eager to learn, eager to work dogs that should have a lot of energy but still have a good off switch just as a good herder should be, but just the energy vibe and feel for them is different than herders. I find that Toller people generally enjoy herding breeds but die hard herding breed people can find that Tollers are just not for them. They come across either too frantic, 'up' and in your face or they don't have enough drive and endurance depending on lines/where the Toller is from. At least, that's what I've been told from people considering a Toller vs. a herding breed (which, like I said, is usually a Border Collie). And it is also the vibe I get in Agility class from herding breed people. They just don't see Dance's (or the other Tollers') appeal.

But regardless of all that, I don't think a Toller would suit you quite as well as a Lab according to your list and things you've said in that past. A few things that stand out for me are:

Tollers are not always super dog friendly. Males tend to be fine, but females can be quite bitchy with other females. Sounds like you probably want a male based on past threads though, so that might be a moot point. Their voices are obnoxious. They are not territorial guardy type dogs, but instead they do enjoy alert barking and their barks are super high pitched which drives a lot of people crazy. They are not a barky breed, but sometimes they jump the gun with the alert barking. Kind of reactionary that way rather than thinking things through. They are supposed to be reserved with strangers, but there is unfortunately a lot of shyness in the breed. With that said, I just met some very "OMG I love you even though I just met you!" Tollers not long ago too. So there is variation. Obviously, they're also a coated breed. They shed quite a bit and do need some brushing and maintenance. Some need more than others. I've seen a few different types of coat in the breed. Dance is by far the most hard headed, stubborn, mischevious dog I've ever lived with. She's also not as easy going as most Labs, FCRs or even the Chessies I've been around. She's not anxious, but she's always watching and looking and is, I guess, a little busier in that way... not really sure what the word I'm looking for is. Prey drive is another thing. I can only go based on what I know of Dance here, but I know she would definitely not be small animal safe. She's not cat safe anymore, and most definitely is not bird or rodent safe. She could do it with constant supervision, but it's a lot less stressful just to not have her around them.

Sorry for going on and on, haha. If you are interested it would definitely be best to meet some. I find they're a love 'em or hate 'em breed. To be honest, they seem to drive more people crazy than they make people fall in love. I obviously think the world of them and love them, but a lot of dog people don't. The FCR people I know think I'm nuts for liking Tollers.
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  #16  
Old 09-14-2012, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by *blackrose View Post
I haven't really considered sighthounds much due to always viewing them as somewhat...sensitive? Shy? That and the fact that hound + off lead doesn't normally belong in the same sentence. Most of the retired racers I've met are lovely dogs, just not my cup of tea. The only Whippet I ever met I...strongly disliked. But she was dumber than a box of rocks and paid no attention to any cues you gave, ever. I'd love to meet a more proper Whippet.
Yes, they tend to be pretty soft, get their feelings hurt easily and can be rather sensitive. They were not bred for trainability, so their desire to "do stuff" with their owners as far as training goes can be all over the board (I know someone you had Whippets and offered a prize at the National for lowest qualifying score in obedience LOL). Most love to be with their people, hang around, lounge on the couch together but not all are terribly interested in doing stuff for you. It doesn't mean they are dumb, it's just a matter of what was or was not important for the breed's work. IME most respond very, very well to positive, upbeat training methods and really poorly with methods involving forcing them to do what you want. They seem like they really can't grasp why you would be mean to them and it really hurts their feelings. Breeds bred to work with people, doing tasks together seem to better understand or at least accept such methods better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by *blackrose View Post
I haven't ever met a Viszla, so I can't say I know much about them. Just from doing some reading, it seems as if they are rather soft, clingy dogs as well? Or that could have just been the one opinion. I already have one soft, clingy dog, don't really care for another. Lol
I really don't think a Viszla fits your list for a few reasons but IME they are definitely clingy, needy dogs. I have been around quite a few from all different breeders are they all were velcro-y sorts - wanting to touch you and be touched a lot. We had one at daycare because he could never, ever be left home alone. He was frantically clingy and it was tiring having to deal with him all day because he was constantly pressed against you following you, etc. They aren't all that bad for sure but definitely seem to be touchy-feely sorts of dogs.

How about Curly Coated Retrievers? The ones I have been around seem like they fit just about everything on your list. They are kind of like Labs only more...I dunno...reasonable?
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  #17  
Old 09-14-2012, 03:04 PM
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We have a ton of Vizslas at my work, lots of breeders/fanciers who do agility, conf, obed, and hunting. They seem to be very into their owners, I know 1 of the gazillion, does whine when alone in a crate but that could also be that she's at agility class. They're quieter dogs, not super spastic, but they sure can fly when you figure them out.

You'd probably do best with a lab if you like a dog that challenges you and isn't obsessed with you. LOL Denis wants another lab and while I'll enjoy owning one I told him he has to train the dog, I prefer my dogs style.
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  #18  
Old 09-14-2012, 03:52 PM
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Sounds like my Dutch Shepherd. I love him!

http://clgoetz.8m.com/dogs/boaz/index.htm

50 pounds, muscular, athletic, and have have done very little training and we still qualify at Rally trials. LOVES, children!

(Just a warning, my dog is a pedigreed import "pet", not a "working" dog.)
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  #19  
Old 09-14-2012, 04:13 PM
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LOL Yeah.. I wouldn't recommend anyone to jump into Dutch expecting them to all be so easy, that's a good disclaimer to have.
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  #20  
Old 09-14-2012, 04:47 PM
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LOL Yeah.. I wouldn't recommend anyone to jump into Dutch expecting them to all be so easy, that's a good disclaimer to have.
The imports are so different than the US working dogs...sort of. It just depends on who you get it from.

But he is so much easier than my Malinois was. Yikes!

I'm really excited about the FCI World Agility Championships. The team from Estonia has a Dutch Shepherd on it.
http://www.agility2012.cz/en/teams/ee/

And the owner sent me this link of Keida and Jeti in action. Agility is my favorite spectator sport.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7j5gdtWbS4
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