Caucasian Ovcharka

[Emily]

Originally Posted by sassafras

My experience is that there are things that are far faster and easier to teach with aversives or that some people are incapable of training without aversives, not that those things CAN'T be trained without aversives. I don't mean that as a dig, because there are plenty of things I don't have the time, patience, or ability to fiddle around with positively regardless of what type of dog I'm working with. Nor do I really care how someone else chooses to teach them. I don't even care if people don't teach them at all but choose to use management instead.

Having said that, I'm not going to say it CAN'T be done.

This. X1000

[Doberluv]

Originally Posted by sassafras

My experience is that there are things that are far faster and easier to teach with aversives or that some people are incapable of training without aversives, not that those things CAN'T be trained without aversives. I don't mean that as a dig, because there are plenty of things I don't have the time, patience, or ability to fiddle around with positively regardless of what type of dog I'm working with. Nor do I really care how someone else chooses to teach them. I don't even care if people don't teach them at all but choose to use management instead.

Having said that, I'm not going to say it CAN'T be done.

Exactly. Well put.

[Danefied]

Originally Posted by Barbara!

There is no such thing as purely positive training.

Didn’t see that anyone was claiming there was.

In terms of behavioral science positive simply means adding something. Nothing else. Even taken to mean creating behaviors with +R its still not possible to use +R 100% of the time. No one claims that - at least not anyone with a rudimentary understanding of behavioral science.

Did you read any of that link I posted?
I ask because in your posts it sounds like you’re not using positive reinforcement in the scientific sense. Its not a training method. Its ONE of four quadrants that explain how organisms learn.

Originally Posted by Barbara!

And sorry, but not only does my mentors experience disagree with you, but my own experience as well.

Please be respectful of the fact that many people posting on this thread have decades of experience training dogs (not wanting to call anyone out for being OLD *cough* *cough* :P)
But seriously, some of the folks posting here have not only decades of experience, but thousands of dogs they have personally worked with under their belt too.

There are many training problems I personally have no clue how to solve, but if I keep my mind open to the combined experience and knowledge of some of the folks I train with, the possibilities are endless. Hey! Just like my favorite Denise Fenzi blog! http://denisefenzi.com/2011/12/15/what-is-possible/

The truth is, there is a lot of training that I simply can’t do, I don’t know how to do, I don’t want to do, I’m too impatient to do, I just don’t care enough to do, etc. That does not equate to it is impossible to do.

[CharlieDog]

Originally Posted by rosemarrym

I've looked at the CAO seriously, but I don't think I could handle the CO. I do prefer the looks of the CAO as well.

Well well well. Looks like I've got an echo.

[sillysally]

They're amazing dogs, but I don't think I'd own one unless I had actual livestock to guard from serious predators-like wolves....or velociraptors.....