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  #21  
Old 08-28-2012, 10:01 AM
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AdrianneIsabel AdrianneIsabel is offline
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Originally Posted by ihartgonzo View Post
I really like NV because it has Montimous (???) clay, which it's anti diarrheal. Yay for sensitive dogs!
Woot! Lol thanks.

I don't blame the kibble / raw mix honestly but it's possible. No one I've had in the past has been so sensitive do I may be in a new world.

That said here is where I admit I'm an absent minded idiot. Sloan has always been grain intolerant, kibbles with grain cause a similar effect. I'm now wondering if it was the sojo and not the chicken.

I think we'll be doing kibble where we're safe, she's too quick to lose too much weight and we have an AKC show in two weeks where they glare at our skinny dogs as is.

I think I am going to add tiny raw chunks of premade and see if that is okay then ease her over if it's working. Then the same with just muscle sans bone and fat.

She eats plenty of fat in nonraw form and she gets a lot of marrow bones and bone meal in her diet as is and I'm not sure that the meat itself is the culprit so after cleaning blood off the carpet Denis and I remembered the last time we did this and it was when she was younger and we tried a grain in kibble.

This morning she got a bit of food, although I wanted to fast her, because Denis wasn't thrilled seeing her not eat especially when she begged all through our dinner which she never does. Poor girl though looked at the handful of kibble, bonemeal, pumpkin, and water with some serious question before eating it. She then tried to steal Backups chicken and she's never been that brazen. Guess we know where her tastebuds go.
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  #22  
Old 08-28-2012, 11:26 AM
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I would do bone in chicken (quarters are what I used when we did the transition), no skin or organs or anything else for a week or two. She won't put weight on with that though, so if you need her to fatten up, maybe try it again later down the line, once you've got her at a good weight and good stools.

Hope she feels better soon!
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  #23  
Old 08-28-2012, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by rubygirl View Post
If raw doesnt work it doesn't work. I tried it on my dog and it left her with some very negative symptoms. I now do a half and half split.
How long did you try it for? What did you feed?
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  #24  
Old 08-28-2012, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
I have in the past fed a lot of raw. I fed it actually for 6 years straight without any kibble to a lot of dogs from starved to obese and chihuahuas to pit bulls.

Sloan however is struggling. I would like to try raw with her to help lean her out and clean her diet up but it's not worth the bloody runs we're facing today.

I started everyone on Saturday with bone in thighs + sojos. They've been having raw meals/treats on and off their whole lives. No problems with anyone else and none with Sloan until Sunday(not abnormal).

Sunday night I threw in a chicken back to add some bone and instead we were up all night with the runs. This morning I did thigh again and at work she had a handful of Now kibble for treats. Still having liquid poop I tried a teaspoon of bone meal in her water after playing ball and then gave her a marrow bone to chew on.

Now the poop is almost entirely just watery blood with minimal crumbs of solidness. I'm sure it's just irritated bowels but having had my fair share myself I understand how much they suck.

I'm frustrated. What would you do? Fast? Go back to kibble? Remove the fat/skin? Add more bone? Remove the bone? Try another protien?

I was not unhappy with my kibble over all but I do miss the cut muscle tone and small poop from raw. Of course if this is what raw is going to do I suppose it's better to have kibble.
My take on this would be that her system cannot handle the mix of stuff. All this digests at totally different rates.

I would do only skinned/fat removed chicken backs for a few days. Just that, nothing else. So she has a chance to detox. Once that becomes too much bone via what her poo is telling you, go to skinned/scraped of fat/organs chicken quarters. Do only this for like two weeks at least.

No treats outside of maybe dehydrated chicken breast meat chunks, though frankly I would be very careful not to give too many treats outside of meals. Her system needs to detox and reset completely after having all that different stuff that digests at different rates thrown at it willy nilly.

Once that is good, very slowly up the amount of fat/skin kept on the quarters until she handle it. Once she's good there add in turkey necks slowly and ditto with all new animal sources until she can handle a good variety.

I wouldn't expect to add in liver until you are 2-3 months in to be honest and I would expect to have to pair rich stuff like beef heart with a chicken back possibly.

Honestly I think this is a classic case of too much variety too soon and that her system happens to be sensitive to the mixing of different types of food.

Scout had major, major issues with mixing raw with other types of food (kibble, dehydrated, etc.), but when I went full pmr it all cleared up. She is sensitive when first getting acclimated to new things like lamb heart or when I first intro-ed elk. She can eat whole meals of elk heart now... so its a matter of just taking the time to properly acclimate them to various things as you go along.

I will say that grass fed green tripe has done a world of good for Scout's tummy as well. That was actually the second thing I added to his diet when I had my foster. Its really low calorie so you could add a little to every meal once she's past the initial chicken part maybe to get the good digestive enzymes.
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  #25  
Old 08-28-2012, 02:33 PM
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Premades can and do cause more issues at times. Lots of people on various raw lists that come in asking for help are the ones doing premade raw and/or mixing food types like raw/kibble/dehydrated/commercial treats/etc.

Trying to slowly transition with raw seems to cause waaaaaaaaaay more issues than it solves. Honestly fasting 12-24hrs and going solely to bone in chicken (or turkey necks) for a couple weeks would be the safest bet for digestive happiness.

Adding all kinds of stuff all over the place is a great way to set yourselves up for raw not working. I know I said it in the previous post, but I feel it bears repeating here.

The huge variety of treats, bones, different forms of food, etc. are exactly why she's having issues. Pick one food source and stick with it! Some dogs you can get away with that crap, but many cannot handle that at all and it results in many people throwing up their hands and saying raw doesn't work because they refuse to be consistent and stick to proper transition protocol.
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  #26  
Old 08-30-2012, 12:53 PM
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Okay so, an update. The pit bulls are still doing well mostly.

Backup is having a but a of trouble with the bone. A few vomits and undigested pieces passing but over all he's adjusting.

Sloan is back to normal, a bit skinnier, and doing well on kibble and a chunk of raw chicken or turkey sans fat/bone. Normal poop, no more wake up calls. I know, the horror of mixing, but it appears to be working right now. I'd still like to pick up some pre made raw this weekend and start upping the ratio but I've not had time yet.

I'd almost give up but a friend just gave me a ton of meat so we're in it for the long haul.

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Sloan von Krigbaum IPO1 CGC BH CD NA NJ PD MJ-N RATI RATN 3/7/10 -
Shamoo NJ-N RATI RATN 3/1/98 -
Phelan du Loups du Soleil CGC RATI 6/15/13 -
Chili Brigades Brover 5/23/14 -

Arnold CGC TDI FD 6/29/04 - 07/05/13
Backup CGC HIC CD SRD SJ-N RATI 12/29/09 - 07/05/13

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  #27  
Old 08-30-2012, 02:45 PM
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Bone vomit is normal for at least the first few weeks - nothing to worry about! Freezer looks awesome!
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  #28  
Old 09-10-2012, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by naturalfeddogs View Post
How long did you try it for? What did you feed?
I tried it for half a year and she just had a dull/brittle coat, no energy, mucousy/nasty poops and her personality changed which was the worst part.
I did the typical 80/10/10 ratio and I transitioned proteins appropriately...
I'm not looking for help to try and switch her again. I tried it. Not once but twice.
I just know that it doesn't work for every dog.
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  #29  
Old 09-10-2012, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by rubygirl View Post
I tried it for half a year and she just had a dull/brittle coat, no energy, mucousy/nasty poops and her personality changed which was the worst part.
I did the typical 80/10/10 ratio and I transitioned proteins appropriately...
I'm not looking for help to try and switch her again. I tried it. Not once but twice.
I just know that it doesn't work for every dog.
The 80/10/10 thing is just a guideline, nothing more. All dogs are different, some need more of one thing, some need less. I have never followed that guide at all. Do you think they follow that in the wild?

They also go through a detox period, that depending on the dog can go on for a year sometimes. If you started raw, then stopped and then started again the dog didn't have a chance to adjust. During the detox period, it can seem that they are doing worse when in fact they are adjusting through detox.
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  #30  
Old 09-10-2012, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by naturalfeddogs View Post
The 80/10/10 thing is just a guideline, nothing more. All dogs are different, some need more of one thing, some need less. I have never followed that guide at all. Do you think they follow that in the wild?

They also go through a detox period, that depending on the dog can go on for a year sometimes. If you started raw, then stopped and then started again the dog didn't have a chance to adjust. During the detox period, it can seem that they are doing worse when in fact they are adjusting through detox.
Sorry but that is anecdotal. There is no science behind that theory. As I said, I'm not interested in conversion I was just stating my experience.
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