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  #31  
Old 08-13-2012, 10:53 PM
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  #32  
Old 08-13-2012, 11:06 PM
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hahahaha damwerkindawgpeople.
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  #33  
Old 08-14-2012, 12:13 AM
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Mostly free shaping, capturing, maybe 1 % luring but typically don't lure at all. Consequences without harsh corrections once a behaviour has been fully trained and proofed. And some NRM'ers, depends on the dog and what we are doing.
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  #34  
Old 08-14-2012, 01:07 AM
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hahahaha damwerkindawgpeople.
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  #35  
Old 08-14-2012, 06:11 AM
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My training method of choice is training in drive.
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  #36  
Old 08-14-2012, 08:21 AM
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This thread reminds me of something a herding instructor told me once:

Whichever training method you use all you are doing is teaching the dog how to learn, whether it's shaping, luring, leash pressure or corrections. They will all learn the rules of how to learn and will eventually understand what you are trying to make them do. Methods are for the trainer, not the dog.

I teach luring in all of my classes, I have seen some very precise behaviors taught by luring and some very sloppy behaviors taught by luring. I have also seen some very precise behaviors (yes even those dang competition behaviors like heel!!) taught by shaping and targeting and some very sloppy behaviors taught by clickering. I don't believe it's the method that creates sloppy behaviors but the trainer's application of the method. I'm a sloppy lurer, I drop treats, I get frustated, I try to fade too quickly and I make a botchery of behaviors using that method. I'm a fantastic shaper, I can get extremely precise behaviors by shaping, and I enjoy the shaping process.

Also, I have free shaped sphinx style downs in both Zuma and Zinga and a couple other student's dogs.
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  #37  
Old 08-14-2012, 08:32 AM
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I must say you are a fantastic shaper(all around trainer, I love your skills). I would like to add though it can depend from dog to dog as well, Arnold loves to shape and he's quick too. Sloan is okay but can frustrate with being wrong too often and begins to abandon your game for her own. Backup either freezes up lending himself to an hourlong staring contest or he panics and spastically offers the wrong behavior 500 times over without a hint of change. However, lure or guide a few times and he's obsessive enough to own it. I do try to do some mild shaping with him and I'm constantly trying to teach him how but he's worlds away from a dog like Arnold and I think he always will be.
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Sloan von Krigbaum IPO1 CGC BH CD NA NJ PD MJ-N RATI RATN 3/7/10 -
Shamoo NJ-N RATI RATN 3/1/98 -
Phelan du Loups du Soleil CGC RATI 6/15/13 -
Chili Brigades Brover 5/23/14 -

Arnold CGC TDI FD 6/29/04 - 07/05/13
Backup CGC HIC CD SRD SJ-N RATI 12/29/09 - 07/05/13

You were amazing, we did amazing things.


Harmony Canine, relationship based training.
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  #38  
Old 08-14-2012, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
I must say you are a fantastic shaper(all around trainer, I love your skills). I would like to add though it can depend from dog to dog as well, Arnold loves to shape and he's quick too. Sloan is okay but can frustrate with being wrong too often and begins to abandon your game for her own. Backup either freezes up lending himself to an hourlong staring contest or he panics and spastically offers the wrong behavior 500 times over without a hint of change. However, lure or guide a few times and he's obsessive enough to own it. I do try to do some mild shaping with him and I'm constantly trying to teach him how but he's worlds away from a dog like Arnold and I think he always will be.
I agree with you that some dogs are faster/more tolerant of it than others (hello Zuma!), however the thing I love about shaping is that you can adapt to fit the dog. Classic shuts down extremely easily and even if he's successful in shaping, I have to limit sessions to 2-3 minutes otherwise he will go into a fly-biting episode. So that's what I do! I click for a lot more with Classic, I make sure he's successful, and I keep sessions very short. It takes him a lot longer to learn behaviors than a dog like Zuma, but he's very capable of learning complex behaviors with shaping as long as I remember his limitations/preferences. Quick example, pivoting into heel position took Zuma one 5 minute session. It took 5-6 sessions for Classic. What I'm saying is that just because I train one way with the merle girls, doesn't mean I use those exact methods with Classic even though it can still be classified as shaping.
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  #39  
Old 08-14-2012, 10:08 AM
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Eve hates shaping because I'm a shitty shaper, and because I'm a shitty shaper I spend less time shaping and more time luring when I'm training a dog that isn't mine. More time efficient.
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  #40  
Old 08-14-2012, 10:20 AM
SaraB SaraB is offline
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Eve hates shaping because I'm a shitty shaper, and because I'm a shitty shaper I spend less time shaping and more time luring when I'm training a dog that isn't mine. More time efficient.
This for me, just swap shaper/lurer. I'm a shitty lurer, so I don't lure which means my dog doesn't learn how to learn by luring. However, I lure when I teach so my skillz are improving... maybe I just need to sit down and have a lure session with the Zoom.
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